Selling without a FFL transfer

[IronMonster]

I hear ya and I think that is a valid point.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

It comes down to personal responsibility; if you cannot morally or legally sell to a felon, but are doing a deal with someone you don't know, what are your options? BGC or see a valid CHL. The CHL is obviously cheaper. So, if the Leftists actually cared, then they would just adopt policies of holding people accountable who are the sellers of guns to felons (or others of the no-go variety). This would prevent the need for burdening the OSP or anyone else with BGCs and would allow people to maintain their freedom. Essentially, this would just emphasize that it is the seller's responsibility to vet their buyers... again, personal responsibility, a hallmark of a free individual. Leftists don't believe in the individual, or personal responsibility, because they have none. So they don't think you have any either.

 

[Cataphract]

Until the law is repealed, the threat of prosecution remains. 99.999% (note, statistics pulled entirely out of thin air) of the guns sold or traded are going to go to law abiding citizens with a healthy fascination with things that go bang, and will never be used to perforate a human in the commission of a crime or in defense of one's life. However, in that .0001%, there may be an issue. I know people who have had guns stolen, and have no record of serial numbers, and depending on dollar amounts involved, may not have even reported the theft to authorities.
Sometimes people violate laws, knowingly or not ( CC in Oregon by a WA resident without the proper documentation, etc...)
Sometimes, people who have been law abiding their entire lives snap when they've had a crappy day and decide that the BMW driver who's just cut them off for the third time in two miles needs to learn some manners.
In any of those cases, if you sold a piece to the individual involved without the proper documentation, you leave yourself wide open for problems if the DA decides he wants to make a point.
There haven't been prosecutions yet, but the first one could come at any time.
It's a stupid law, pushed through by out of state money and haphazardly written by people with little to no knowledge of firearms, or seemingly, how to write legislation. However, it is a law, and there are potential consequences for breaking it. The transfer process is cumbersome and expensive, but much less so than trying to defend myself against an overzealous DA in court.
So, until we rise up and repeal this joke of a law in court, I toe the line. I don't look good in orange.

 

[Goosebrown]

I think if you look at the numbers reported by the state for private party transfers, it's pretty safe to assume that "will not comply" is likely the norm rather than the exception. Total of 173 "official" transfers in the month of November. I have a feeling there are far more than that going on, just looking at the number of listings between NWFA and AL every month.

I think the opposite. No one would disobey. This is simply all the transfers that ever went on without an FFL... That is less than 1%. Now Mr. Obama, like a cur licking the dregs of a dumpster outside a chinese restaurant is going to announce that he will close the gun show loophole... and get that 1% all NICSd up.

 

[DuneHopper]

I have been pretty open and clear that SB941 does not apply to me, been saying it awhile.
I am not saying nor will I say if I did a transaction.

Why does it not apply to me because I can without hesitation know what and where things are occurring and how. Will I state how and incriminate myself , ummm no. But I have my stance because I do know they can not do anything with SB941 I disagree its a matter of time, if it occurs it will be by a Antis patsy no doubt in a high profile case which would involve some kinda mass shooting. It wont be an accident if no enforcement is being done the Antiis will fabricate and event people think that is tinfoil hat thinking. Its been occurring since we became a nation its what our country does to disrupt sovereignty.

 

[308]

I miss the days when you could buy and sell your tools without government approval.

Criminals don't care about this. I guess it comes down to being a conscientious criminal who would not sell a firearm to someone not allowed to own a firearm, or a bad criminal who does not care about the law or whom they sell the gun to. Either way, it's like concealed carry...or a tree falling in the woods.

 

[bakersman345]

I have no facts to back it up but I suspect at least in Washington the new law has resulted in more guns in the hands of law abiding folks

Prior to I594 I would try to exhaust all hope of buying used before I would consider new and often would sell stuff that I had lost interest in to fund new purchases.

Since it went into effect I have not sold a single firearm and everything I have bought has been new (I would have to scratch my head for a minute but including NFA stuff I would say I bought close to 20 "firearms" in 2015 although many where suppressors and one a SBR)

So at least for me personally my collection grew significantly because of the hassle of private FFL deals.
I understand that is probably not typical but I would bet that across the board there is no doubt that it had a significant effect on the number of legal guns in good folks hands.

Not that I think the law is acceptable, but more guns is a good thing regardless

--- I have done alot of transfers the guys know who I am, and know my number when I call.
In WA the whole process takes about 10-15 minutes and I get more time to inspect my potential purpose.
In OR I wouldn't bother (not even new) Last time I went to do a deal over there it took 2 hours and the guy was delayed for a month. The time before that it took a hour amd a half. Talk about a waste of my time.

- as a side note why don't they pass a exemption for cpl holders, or even make me pay a fee for a background check exemption card good for a year. Then if you decide to buy a gun the owner sends in a transfer sheet. Seems easy, then the state gets additional revenue and doesn't have to pay all that overtime to OSP

 

[DuneHopper]

--- I have done alot of transfers the guys know who I am, and know my number when I call.
In WA the whole process takes about 10-15 minutes and I get more time to inspect my potential purpose.
In OR I wouldn't bother (not even new) Last time I went to do a deal over there it took 2 hours and the guy was delayed for a month. The time before that it took a hour amd a half. Talk about a waste of my time.

- as a side note why don't they pass a exemption for cpl holders, or even make me pay a fee for a background check exemption card good for a year. Then if you decide to buy a gun the owner sends in a transfer sheet. Seems easy, then the state gets additional revenue and doesn't have to pay all that overtime to OSP

Good post , ya other states allow non-ffl transfers with a CHL. Prozanski shut down that request during sessions.

 

[IronMonster]

Because keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys is not the actual goal.


Its about making it harder for good, honest folks to do honest things.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Everyone: think nice and hard... find your line in the sand.

 

[DuneHopper]

Because keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys is not the actual goal.
Its about making it harder for good, honest folks to do honest things.

YEP, they could care less how it affect the budget or citizens as long as it feeds the lie they are happy.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

--- I have done alot of transfers the guys know who I am, and know my number when I call.
In WA the whole process takes about 10-15 minutes and I get more time to inspect my potential purpose.
In OR I wouldn't bother (not even new) Last time I went to do a deal over there it took 2 hours and the guy was delayed for a month. The time before that it took a hour amd a half. Talk about a waste of my time.

- as a side note why don't they pass a exemption for cpl holders, or even make me pay a fee for a background check exemption card good for a year. Then if you decide to buy a gun the owner sends in a transfer sheet. Seems easy, then the state gets additional revenue and doesn't have to pay all that overtime to OSP

i was at my buddies house who happens to have his FFL. another friend of mine was there and had been there 4 1/2hrs waiting fpr OSP. he was #470 in line when they started... BS if u ask me.

 

[pokerace]

What ever happened to "I will not comply?" Just curious, seems like so much talk...

Play it smart, don't talk OR WRITE ABOUT IT.............

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Play it smart, don't talk OR WRITE ABOUT IT.............

Everyone is talking about "complying" so by what you say people shouldn't be discussing it, which is preferable to them giving everyone the impression here that they're all going along with it.

We don't want to be fooling each other. Just, certain people...

 

[pokerace]

Everyone is talking about "complying" so by what you say people shouldn't be discussing it, which is preferable to them giving everyone the impression here that they're all going along with it.

We don't want to be fooling each other. Just, certain people...

They DO watch these sites. We do have several LEO'S on this site. sooner or later OSP will
start running sting's. I prefer my handle is not associated with non compliance.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

They DO watch these sites. We do have several LEO'S on this site. sooner or later OSP will
start running sting's. I prefer my handle is not associated with non compliance.

Then just say nothing. All this false bending-over backwards is silly.

 

[The Heretic]

They DO watch these sites. We do have several LEO'S on this site. sooner or later OSP will
start running sting's. I prefer my handle is not associated with non compliance.

People may not like this, but for now I am complying. I simply have too much at stake to risk prison at this point.

YMMV

 

[Koda]

you all can flame me for it but as a law abiding citizen I will abide by the law and comply.

 

[Cataphract]

No flame from me. I agree that while it's a stupid law, keeping one's self out of legal hot water is a worthy endeavor, and part of existing in a society is dealing with rules you might not like.
However, part of existing in a democracy is being able to change those rules. Has anyone got information on legal challenges to WA's poorly written law? I've not heard much. I would think that in a year or two when gun violence hasn't changed a bit that the time might be right for another citizen initiative. If we can point to statistics showing that regulating the law abiding does nothing to the criminal, we may be able to send this law the way of prohibition.

 

[DuneHopper]

They DO watch these sites. We do have several LEO'S on this site. sooner or later OSP will
start running sting's. I prefer my handle is not associated with non compliance.

On this site I have been bold and open about this topic since SB941 went public.
Ive had coffee sitting out for months and the donuts are getting stale. Just saying.