Secret Service Report on Mass Attacks out now

[pharmseller]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.




P

 

[Flopsweat]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.




P

Cogito ergo rideo.

 

[zenbreath]

Just to be persnickety: True facts?

As opposed to... false facts?

Something is either true or a fact.

A fact is a type of statement.

The sun is hot....true fact.

The sun is cold....untrue fact.

I think the sun is made of ice....opinion.

The Trail Blazers are the best in the world. Fact...but only true if you were here in 77.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

The only psych drug I can speak to personally is an SSRI.... I have written that I can personally verify that going off cold turkey makes anger more intense. IMO, the biggest problem we have is that MDs are prescribing SSRIs... that should only be done by psychiatrists and the patient kept under care. One of the things that happens even with psychiatrists is that the SSRIs are prescribed and then the patient does not receive continued care.

I would agree Psychiatrists should be prescribing ssris, but I would also say I am okay with neurologists doing it. I know enough horror stories from PCPs that scare me to suggest this.

 

[shybladder]

A bunch of gov garb for your all's reading pleasure. Didn't even click it open because I already know 3/4 of the article is bogus. Unless you all believe what the government is telling you

 

[bbbass]

I would agree Psychiatrists should be prescribing ssris, but I would also say I am okay with neurologists doing it. I know enough horror stories from PCPs that scare me to suggest this.

What is the purpose that neurologists prescribe SSRIs? Is it for depression/anxiety associated with Alzheimer's or dementia?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

What is the purpose that neurologists prescribe SSRIs? Is it for depression/anxiety associated with Alzheimer's or dementia?

It can be. Or with other degenerative conditions. Also they have to know their psych meds as many are anti epileptics as well. Then throw in that cymbalta (an SSNRI) is used for nerve pain... There is significant overlap.

 

[bbbass]

It can be. Or with other degenerative conditions. Also they have to know their psych meds as many are anti epileptics as well. Then throw in that cymbalta is used for nerve pain... There is significant overlap.

Thx!

Yes, but I think that although there may be other uses, SSRIs prescribed for depression/anxiety should require concurrent counseling. Otherwise the med is helping control the symptoms, but not the underlying cause. Something like chronic pain that often brings depression, if treated with only pain or neurology meds, results in a patient that does not have near the quality of life as another chronic pain patient that benefits from a pain management clinic to help them adjust.

Ooops, sorry, more thread drift.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Thx!

Yes, but I think that although there may be other uses, SSRIs prescribed for depression/anxiety should require concurrent counseling. Otherwise the med is helping control the symptoms, but not the underlying cause. Something like chronic pain that often brings depression, if treated with only pain or neurology meds, results in a patient that does not have near the quality of life as another chronic pain patient that benefits from a pain management clinic to help them adjust.

Ooops, sorry, more thread drift.

Well some things aren't helped by counseling. Let me give you a common scenario. Say, someone is in a car wreck. In it their leg had significant nerve damage that causes severe nerve pain. They take cymbalta (an ssnri) and say lyrica, for pain. The problem is not going away. Personally I am not sure how counseling helps if the person is adjusting normally back into life. I do think that when starting a med one should be exceedingly careful.

 

[billdeserthills]

Thx!

Yes, but I think that although there may be other uses, SSRIs prescribed for depression/anxiety should require concurrent counseling. Otherwise the med is helping control the symptoms, but not the underlying cause. Something like chronic pain that often brings depression, if treated with only pain or neurology meds, results in a patient that does not have near the quality of life as another chronic pain patient that benefits from a pain management clinic to help them adjust.

Ooops, sorry, more thread drift.

I agree, these ssri takers are susceptible to becoming mass shooters and need to be under a doctors care--at least better supervision

 

[Wombat of Doom]

You do realize that for many folks SSRIs merely raise their serotonin levels to normal, right?

 

[billdeserthills]

You do realize that every modern mass shooter has been prescribed ssri's, right?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

You do realize that every modern mass shooter has been prescribed ssri's, right?

Incorrect. Did you read the report? If you had, you would realize some had and some hadn't. (about 2/3 had a psych history, and being prescribed an antidepressant would be a psych history.) Now likely, a few of those were not on SSRIs, but on different meds.) I suspect, as a mental health professional, I know a bit more than average about SSRIs. Used correctly, they are not a particularly scary class. As someone who knows these meds well as a Psych nurse, people making claims like this seem to be making a pretty big leap.

 

[billdeserthills]

Incorrect. Did you read the report? If you had, you would realize some had and some hadn't. (about 2/3 had a psych history, and being prescribed an antidepressant would be a psych history.) Now likely, a few of those were not on SSRIs, but on different meds.) I suspect, as a mental health professional, I know a bit more than average about SSRIs. Used correctly, they are not a particularly scary class. As someone who knows these meds well as a Psych nurse, people making claims like this seem to be making a pretty big leap.

Sounds like ssri's & mass shootings are linked

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Sounds like ssri's & mass shootings are linked

correlation is not causation. Sounds like you made a pretty wildly false claim?

Would I expect people with depression and mental health histories and criminal histories to have more of a likelihood than a class of drug which some of the shooters might have been on? People under intense financial pressures? Yeah, which is what the secret service document mentioned.

 

[bbbass]

Well some things aren't helped by counseling. Let me give you a common scenario. Say, someone is in a car wreck. In it their leg had significant nerve damage that causes severe nerve pain. They take cymbalta (an ssnri) and say lyrica, for pain. The problem is not going away. Personally I am not sure how counseling helps if the person is adjusting normally back into life. I do think that when starting a med one should be exceedingly careful.

There it is... people with chronic pain often struggle against it, believe that they should not have it, and feel that life, and pain, is unfair. I can't go into the whole of pain management here, but people with chronic pain need to be taught how to mentally adapt. Has nothing to do with adjusting back into life. Has to do with accepting that pain is the new normal. People just want the pain gone and it's not going to happen, then they make themselves more miserable, and oversensitized to pain, than they need to be.

 

[Flopsweat]

There it is... people with chronic pain often struggle against it, believe that they should not have it, and feel that life, and pain, is unfair. I can't go into the whole of pain management here, but people with chronic pain need to be taught how to mentally adapt. Has nothing to do with adjusting back into life. Has to do with accepting that pain is the new normal. People just want the pain gone and it's not going to happen, then they make themselves more miserable, and oversensitized to pain, than they need to be.

As a layman, I find Wombat's argument more convincing. It's all well and good to talk about adapting mentally, but that just doesn't work for everyone. I'm not a big fan of taking any medication long term, but having experienced severe pain for myself several times, I have an opinion. If I were in chronic severe pain and the mental approach didn't work I'd be fine with taking something. In fact I'd insist on it.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I also have some experience as someone with chronic pain. It is my normal, and the odd part is, while I have done a lot of counseling about chronic pain, I haven't needed any myself. I do take meds long term for that. I also have talked to multiple counselors at work, btw, on the subject if counseling would be beneficial for me personally. The answer was no. It sucks. My feet always feel like that one scene from diehard. There is only so much mental adjustment helps.

But that's life. And that is my normal, and I have numerous things I live for. You can actually ignore a whole lot of pain. It interferes in my life. Not going to lie. But at the same time, I hike, I go shooting, I play with my daughters, I read. I am dabbling in some of the drug free methods of utilizing VR to deal with breakthrough pain and such.

But I have idiopathic small fiber neuropathy. Basically, ~98.6% of the small sensory nerves in my legs below the knee are gone. It is a heck of a thing to experience.

 

[Hawaiian]

Evil people have been doing evil things since the beginning of time. If anyone finds a real solution for this, they should be wearing wings and a halo.

 

[bbbass]

As a layman, I find Wombat's argument more convincing. It's all well and good to talk about adapting mentally, but that just doesn't work for everyone. I'm not a big fan of taking any medication long term, but having experienced severe pain for myself several times, I have an opinion. If I were in chronic severe pain and the mental approach didn't work I'd be fine with taking something. In fact I'd insist on it.

Taking nothing for pain is not what I meant at all. But having the experience of attending a chronic pain management clinic for a year, I'm of the opinion that it was beneficial. There were 20 people in a group therapy setting and I can say that 100% of those people were better off, more well adjusted, happier, once they learned acceptance of their situation. Fighting it, resenting it, wanting it to just go away, heightens the sensitivity and perception of pain. Then you get a feedback loop that just makes the pain worse. Take your meds. Accept your pain. Life will be as good as it can be.

I also have some experience as someone with chronic pain. It is my normal, and the odd part is, while I have done a lot of counseling about chronic pain, I haven't needed any myself. I do take meds long term for that. I also have talked to multiple counselors at work, btw, on the subject if counseling would be beneficial for me personally. The answer was no. It sucks. My feet always feel like that one scene from diehard. There is only so much mental adjustment helps.

But that's life. And that is my normal, and I have numerous things I live for. You can actually ignore a whole lot of pain. It interferes in my life. Not going to lie. But at the same time, I hike, I go shooting, I play with my daughters, I read. I am dabbling in some of the drug free methods of utilizing VR to deal with breakthrough pain and such.

But I have idiopathic small fiber neuropathy. Basically, ~98.6% of the small sensory nerves in my legs below the knee are gone. It is a heck of a thing to experience.

Yes well, I have diabetic peripheral neuropathy, massive arthritis in my neck and back and too many joints to count, bursitis, tendonitis, neck spasms, and maybe even colon spasms. I attended a pain management group therapy clinic for a year. I'm guessing that the counselors you spoke with felt that you weren't fighting the pain and therefore didn't need a heads up. But the great preponderance of people with chronic pain do fight it, resent it, just want it to go away, thereby making their pain worse and their lives unhappy. The biggest surprise and initial disappointment for me was when I found out that the Pain Management clinic wasn't going to make the pain go away... it achieves a better accommodation with the pain. If you are doing pain counseling, you know that!!