Scary bad trigger discipline

[clearconscience]

Once is too many times.

I might have slapped some common safety sense into him from the get go

 

[clearconscience]

I had a friend that had a habit of walking back from the firing line pointing rifles/shotguns back at the gallery.

In case you missed that, I HAD a friend.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Thats interesting I have a Father In Law and is a Vietnam Vet so all respect to him are due.

However, he has to be the most unsafe person when shooting, as a few times I was almost killed and he was oblivious. I wont shoot with him any more you have a couple rounds fly over your head cause the guy decides rocks are a good back stop 25ft away with an AK-47, Good lord and was shooting across a gravel road when he did it.
I am so grateful my now older kids are safe, we yell out ears and eyes to make sure everyone knows we are going hot and then we say going hot and rack the round. Of course thats up in BLM we don't yell at the range LOL.
I digress, been there done that and its a hard place to be, he was close a couple times but the bullets flying over head did it. Of course there was the time he thought he would do a hip shot and dump the 30rds and slipped right at the end of mag the barrel swept me as the trigger went click and was out . As I said we don't go with him. I respect his service but my loved ones prefer I am around awhile.

my father in law hadnt picked up an m16 since the one he was issued in vietnam. ive heard very very brief stories about the time he served he will not talk about nam and i definitely respect that. i took him shooting with my highly modified AR type and i swear maybe a little PTSD or something migt have happened as i was rapid firing as he went and sat in the car... i stopped shooting, put the gun down after i cleared it...i asked if he wqs all right...he said "HOLY SH!t i dont remember them being so loud... can i shoot it?"i said sure. heres a mag... he slapped that mag in and handled that thing like a champ. training took over? idk after +40years of not even holding one i was very impressed...he didnt skip a beat.

now the glock was a different story. his left thumb was behind the slide and he got bit. i warned him but he can be stubborn. LOL. must be where my wife gets it from.

 

[ageingstudent]

I definitely think safety has come a long way. If you look at old WWII pictures guys often have their finger inside the trigger guard. I got hammered about keeping the barrel in a safe direction and safety on as a kid but for the life of me I can't ever remember my dad lecturing me about trigger discipline. Dad's an ex marine go figure. I'm not sure it was stressed to keep your finger out of the trigger guard like it is now. I totally agree with keeping your finger away until the barrel is pointed at the target though and I've worked hard to make it an involuntary response.

This reminds me that when i was about 15 I swept my dad with a shotgun once when we were chukar hunting. Not going to relate what happened next but it's safe to say I've never swept anyone since...

 

[Boboclown]

I definitely think safety has come a long way. If you look at old WWII pictures guys often have their finger inside the trigger guard.

Well, that was a long time ago... But a number of things to consider. In staged photos the gun may or may not be loaded. Keep in mind the evolution of firearm technology as well, used to be that a hammer had to be cocked before you could fire it (before we got bolt actions that is). Safety was also not taught the same way until much later (after Vietnam?). Different countries also approach it differently, not sure if any country does it the old way but few groups of people might.

 

[DuneHopper]

I think it all boils down to. Every Firearm is Considered Loaded until "YOU" have personally checked and cleared the chamber.
I will say the biggest mistake I see youngins do is clear the chamber and then drop the mag. Seeing so many Youtube videos its clear many do these steps , Clear, drop mag and keep pointed in safe direction. It the only way a firearm could remain loaded if checked that way, Also many do not look at the throat of the barrel and only look at the chamber. I know it can be hard and if so stick your finger and make sure. Sorry not preaching but I dont wanna get shot on purpose or accident or at all

 

[Boboclown]

Some guns would require some fancy acrobatics in order to put your finger in the chamber (basically require one hand just to hold the bolt back). Not sure I'd want my finger in something that could slip at any given moment.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Way way (way) back in ROTC we did our inspections with M-14s. You only get your right thumb in the way once...When the swelling goes down you learn the right way. If my Sgt or Lt wants to look down the bore and shine the light off his thumbnail, have at it. Mag, clear, look

 

[11Charlie]

I inherited my FIL's hand gun. I gotta say that I don't think it was ever fired once. There were a couple times he wanted to go shooting with me but I always found a way to side step the situation. I always invisioned it the exact same way so it was just easier to not do it.

One time my wife got a little mad at me until I explained my thinking. She gave me a hug and said thank you.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

They left for home today, so I had a chance to talk to the Missus a bit more. I remember her telling me her father said on previous occasions that he's thinking of getting his Concealed Carry so he can get a gun without the waiting period.

I expressed my concern that with his legs (he can't walk more than 50 feet without them going numb or weak) if he got a handgun of his own and walked around with his finger always on the trigger, bad things were sure to happen.

She agreed and thinks he's reconsidering getting a gun.

I hope so.

It's not something we can really discuss with him. He's filled with too much certainty and confidence because "he's been around guns all his life". If he wants to do it he's gonna do it. The only power I have is to stay the hell away from him if he does, and I plan on doing just that. That's what I told the Missus and she gets it. It's a plan that should work if they stay home - I just won't visit.

If he visits here with a gun, I will have to tell him in no uncertain terms to take his frickin' boogerhook off the bang switch, or I won't allow him access to our property or his daughter. That will get his attention, though I'm sure the Missus will have something to say about that, but some situations are simply intolerable and must be addressed.

I can't control other people's actions outside my property, but I can dern well make them obey my rules in my kingdom, or they can stay away.

I suspect this was his last visit here, however. His health is fading and I have hinted to my wife as delicately as I can, that she should be preparing herself for what's coming.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this interesting thread. It was quite an experience and it felt good to unleash my thoughts on you all.

 

[Lazyfaire]

They left for home today, so I had a chance to talk to the Missus a bit more. I remember her telling me her father said on previous occasions that he's thinking of getting his Concealed Carry so he can get a gun without the waiting period.

I expressed my concern that with his legs (he can't walk more than 50 feet without them going numb or weak) if he got a handgun of his own and walked around with his finger always on the trigger, bad things were sure to happen.

She agreed and thinks he's reconsidering getting a gun.

I hope so.

It's not something we can really discuss with him. He's filled with too much certainty and confidence because "he's been around guns all his life". If he wants to do it he's gonna do it. The only power I have is to stay the hell away from him if he does, and I plan on doing just that. That's what I told the Missus and she gets it. It's a plan that should work if they stay home - I just won't visit.

If he visits here with a gun, I will have to tell him in no uncertain terms to take his frickin' boogerhook off the bang switch, or I won't allow him access to our property or his daughter. That will get his attention, though I'm sure the Missus will have something to say about that, but some situations are simply intolerable and must be addressed.

I can't control other people's actions outside my property, but I can dern well make them obey my rules in my kingdom, or they can stay away.

I suspect this was his last visit here, however. His health is fading and I have hinted to my wife as delicately as I can, that she should be preparing herself for what's coming.

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this interesting thread. It was quite an experience and it felt good to unleash my thoughts on you all.

As you said, it's probably his last visit. Tell him there are only 2 ways for another weapon to be in your house. Holstered or in your safe. You should never see his while he is there. Then smile and wave goodbye from the driveway.

 

[titsonritz]

Yeah...no thanks.

 

[DuneHopper]

Some guns would require some fancy acrobatics in order to put your finger in the chamber (basically require one hand just to hold the bolt back). Not sure I'd want my finger in something that could slip at any given moment.

I don't know about you but if its dark and you cant secure the firearm you have more to worry about then a booboo on the finger. Just saying. I don't care stick a popcicle stick on there geees

 

[Boboclown]

I don't know about you but if its dark and you cant secure the firearm you have more to worry about then a booboo on the finger. Just saying. I don't care stick a popcicle stick on there geees

In the middle of the dark, I'd have other concerns that don't require checking the chamber. A brass check, probably.

 

[Kristina]

When my SO and I go shooting with other people we always go over - at the very least - the four golden rules. New shooter, experienced shooter, "I own 400 guns" shooter, it doesn't matter, we always have a conversation about safety. You may have to be tactful about it with "experienced" people but it should always happen so everyone is on the same page. I have found that just saying, "Okay, who knows the four rules of gun safety?" while people are getting set up is a good way of doing it. The way the question is asked involves all people present and feels more "natural" so it doesn't put any one person on the spot. And then from there say, "Okay, we all know the rules and we all need to hold each other accountable." That sets the stage for correcting one another later on and can help keep the bruised egos - and safety violations - to a minimum. Maybe when/IF he wants to shoot with you again try something like "hey (insert wife's name) why don't you remind us what the gun safety rules are again" and go from there.

ETA: after reading your last post obviously the FIL situation is not relevant.

 

[etrain16]

Some years ago, we went shooting with a group of friends and acquaintances, some of whom we had not shot with before. One older gentleman displayed some pretty poor gun handling. We had been shooting a while when he brought out his guns - two very old revolvers and ammo that was very old as well - and apparently not stored correctly. He started loading up the guns and went to shoot and experienced repeated failures of his old ammo - which he would immediately eject from the gun without waiting, with the barrel pointed downrange to see if it might be a hang fire. It was at that point (I was down the line away from him a bit), that I noticed he was sweeping folks with the loaded guns. At that point, we packed up and left, and never shot with him around again. He was in his 70's at the time and likely wasn't going to be open for correction, so in that case, we felt it best to simply remove ourselves from a potentially bad situation.

If I know someone can't be safe with a gun, either they will need to go through some gun safety training and demonstrate that for me, or we won't go shooting together. It's not worth the risk.

 

[Lazyfaire]

When I would go up to Browns Camp to shoot rifles I always went early to avoid people. Was almost done with exercising my shotgun and turned around with my breech open empty and cleared, to find 3 young men had backed in. One obviously had the guns and ammo and the other two were giddy friends.
One of the giddy ones picked up an 'AR style' weapon and pointed it out towards the front window, NOT downrange but back thru the parking area and across a road. AND then I saw it had a magazine in it. I put my hand on my pistol and yelled at him to not move the rifle and to put it down as he pointed it. I then told the owner what he had done and told him to drop the mag and to clear it before it was moved down range. He was shocked and hadn't noticed what his friend had done.
I loaded up and left, unapologetic.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Some years ago, we went shooting with a group of friends and acquaintances, some of whom we had not shot with before. One older gentleman displayed some pretty poor gun handling. We had been shooting a while when he brought out his guns - two very old revolvers and ammo that was very old as well - and apparently not stored correctly. He started loading up the guns and went to shoot and experienced repeated failures of his old ammo - which he would immediately eject from the gun without waiting, with the barrel pointed downrange to see if it might be a hang fire. It was at that point (I was down the line away from him a bit), that I noticed he was sweeping folks with the loaded guns. At that point, we packed up and left, and never shot with him around again. He was in his 70's at the time and likely wasn't going to be open for correction, so in that case, we felt it best to simply remove ourselves from a potentially bad situation.

If I know someone can't be safe with a gun, either they will need to go through some gun safety training and demonstrate that for me, or we won't go shooting together. It's not worth the risk.

This is why I always try and go shooting early whether it's at a range or a quarry. I don't like people walking around behind me especially while carrying weapons. Step on a rock or trip ... No that's when I leave

 

[P7M13]

Me learning to enforce safety around guns has been a progressive one. In range time with other, much more experienced shooters, has improved my awareness. As I have found recently, first time break of the 180° plane and you'll get a brief lecture on muzzle discipline, including one to not point it down at your feet. Second time, go sit down.
Boogerhook on the fun switch: I'm a nag about that, having had it drummed into my head a lot.

As far as diplomacy, I don't have it. I've had my father not talk to me for a year, and a GF break up with me because I called out her mother on a bunch of lies. Talk shyte or act stupid, get slapped.
If he had shot someone, what value would there be in "handling it delicately?" Sure, you don't need to pistol whip him, or banish him from the premises, but a good, stern talking to was in order, IMO.

[ETA] Whenever I hand a weapon to a person when not at a range (i.e. around the safe), I have them watch me as I clear it, and hand it to them with the breech locked back. If at the range, I NEVER hand a weapon directly. I set it on the table or ground with the muzzle downrange, and tell them it's live, ready to fire, watch their trigger. Every gun is loaded, no matter what.

 

[L84Cabo]

Believe me, I understand the delicate nature of this type of situation and the obligation one has to try and keep the peace with the wife unit and the parentals of the wife unit. But that obligation stops on this side of getting shot. If there is going to be shooting after the happenings on the deck, there MUST be a conversation prior to it. Even if it means calling the wife into the house on some pretense and explaining the situation to her and letting her have the discussion with him. There simply is no margin for error once that weapon is loaded. I'm glad everyone survived.