Pistol vs. Rifle trigger action

[RRH]

Hi everyone!
I am very new to firearms, so hope this is a known question.

I bought a Sig P320 AXG Pro and a Mossberg MVP Patrol, then got Mantis and started practicing dry-firing. The biggest issue is the so called creep, it takes quite a bit to move the trigger from the wall to sear release, during which the red dot is moving quite a bit. But then I tried the rifle. What a difference! There is almost no movement at all, I keep increasing the pressure, then it releases. It takes more pressure to release the sear on the rifle, but without any creep.

Is this just a difference between rifles and pistols, or it is possible to tune pistol's trigger system? Maybe it's just this brand and model are different, although it was the cheapest rifle I could buy in 5.56.
Again, I don't care about the amount of pressure, but the distance of the creep. Are there pistol brands that feel more like the rifle experience I described?

Hope I was clear.
Thanks for your feedback!

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[TTSX]

Yes, a 1911

 

[solv3nt]

As a whore of most things, you can have your cake and eat it too. The trigger depends on the platform and the maker. Even highly tuned 1911's have a slight amount of take-up. The Colt Python arguably has one of the best pistol triggers. That said, you can tune most things, but not all things are worth tuning.

In the AR world, Geissele is King. In the precision rifle world, you can choose between single stage and two stage with just about whatever pull weight that you want.

Good luck on your quest, and be prepared to open your wallet.

 

[Catfishmoon]

I would also say a 1911 style pistol has the nicest handgun trigger that I have experienced. My understanding is this because of the simplicity and geometry of how the trigger system is designed, the trigger is pulled in a straight direction rear-wards as opposed to most designs where the trigger pivots.
I don't have much experience with revolvers, but my understanding is some are very nice and other types of pistols are good out of the box or can be upgraded. The trigger on my CZ-75 was good to start with and now is very good (light pull, crisp break) with aftermarket upgrades. There are many companies that offer aftermarket triggers or parts for popular models of handguns and YouTube videos for the do it yourself person.
Single action triggers are often better than average...
I have not shot one, but Canik is mentioned frequently as a brand of non-expensive handguns with good out of the box triggers. Walther also, but more expensive.
If possible, try to visit a gun range that offers handgun rentals and experience as many as you can.

 

[L84Cabo]

It's not necessarily pistol vs rifle. Every trigger is different. Heck, sometimes you can have two of the exact same pistols and there is a difference in the triggers. But generally most factory pistol triggers leave a bit to be desired. Factory rifle triggers are usually a little better than pistol triggers. But not always. Much also depends on the cost of the weapon. Nicer guns usually come with nicer triggers. That's often part of what you are paying for.

And all of this is the reason that trigger jobs/upgrades are one of the most common mods that people do (factory triggers usually leave a lot be desired). To this end, once the "Good Trigger Bug" bites you and you get used to a really nice trigger, it can be hard going back to the crappy ones. Kinda like after the first time your ride in Business or First Class on a plane, you NEVER want to go back to riding coach.

But most pistols these days have at least one and often several aftermarket triggers that you can have put in. I'm not an Sig P320 owner but I'd bet money there are plenty of upgrade options for your gun.

Do keep a couple things in mind. There are some people who suggest that you should not modify a carry gun. Because if you do, an aggressive prosecutor may try to use this against you in the aftermath of a self defense shooting if you end up going to court. Keep in mind, however, nobody has been able to point to an actual real court case where the deciding factor came down to modifying the trigger. To be clear, I'm sure one must exist. And I'm sure a prosecutor has probably tried to use this to their advantage. But it sure doesn't seem like it's happened much or we would probably be hearing more about it. Also note that I'm not talking about a situation where someone lowered their trigger weight to two pounds and then ND'd into somebody.

Secondly, if you are going to mod a carry gun, keep your modifications REASONABLE. I personally have no problem doing trigger jobs on my carry guns. But as I indicated above, you don't want to do anything crazy like changing the pull weight to 2 lbs or something on a carry gun. 4 lbs is as low as I'll go on a carry gun. YMMV on this.

 

[bradsteen]

There is going to be inherently less movement of the optic with a rifle because you get a third point of contact with your body to stabilize it. Also, rifles are designed to be accurate out to significant distances, and crisp, clean trigger helps with that. Comparatively, a pistol can certainly reach out past 100 yards but will most often be used within 25.

I would invest more time into practice rather than try to tune your pistol's trigger. When I first learned to play guitar my dad told me "if you can make it sound OK on an acoustic, it'll sound great on an electric". He was right. The same is true of triggers - if you can be reasonably accurate using a stock trigger, you'll probably do great with a modded trigger. IMO you really should build the skills first instead of using gear as a crutch, but it's your gun and your money, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Hi everyone!
I am very new to firearms, so hope this is a known question.

I bought a Sig P320 AXG Pro and a Mossberg MVP Patrol, then got Mantis and started practicing dry-firing. The biggest issue is the so called creep, it takes quite a bit to move the trigger from the wall to sear release, during which the red dot is moving quite a bit. But then I tried the rifle. What a difference! There is almost no movement at all, I keep increasing the pressure, then it releases. It takes more pressure to release the sear on the rifle, but without any creep.

Is this just a difference between rifles and pistols, or it is possible to tune pistol's trigger system? Maybe it's just this brand and model are different, although it was the cheapest rifle I could buy in 5.56.
Again, I don't care about the amount of pressure, but the distance of the creep. Are there pistol brands that feel more like the rifle experience I described?

Hope I was clear.
Thanks for your feedback!

All guns are different.
A master craftsman doesn't blame his tools.. he masters them.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Learn to shoot from the reset.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A6Ww0dvHuI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CELVufw2WB8

 

[powermad]

If you are noticing the creep/mush/take up on a striker fired pistol then you are pulling the trigger too slow.

After decades of shooting DA/SA pistols I was thrown off by the striker trigger at first.
But I found that it's sorta like DA, just pull the trigger, not stage it or pull slow, just pull the trigger when the sight is on target.

 

[Flopsweat]

First I would identify your goals. What is the primary purpose of your handgun? Your current handgun is designed for carry. You may want another gun for example, if your focus is target shooting.Then find training appropriate to that purpose. Take notes on what you plan to practice after the class. Put in a lot of practice. Research trigger modifications for the gun that you own now. At some point you'll notice that you have a very precise idea of what mods you want to make. Or if you have a lot of time and money, just start buying a lot of guns.

 

[Nosferatu]

I wish there were more around who weren't easily triggered.

 

[Catfishmoon]

First I would identify your goals. What is the primary purpose of your handgun? Your current handgun is designed for carry. You may want another gun for example, if your focus is target shooting.Then find training appropriate to that purpose. Take notes on what you plan to practice after the class. Put in a lot of practice. Research trigger modifications for the gun that you own now. At some point you'll notice that you have a very precise idea of what mods you want to make. Or if you have a lot of time and money, just start buying a lot of guns.

In my opinion those are very accurate comments. The trigger I prefer for bullseye shooting is not a trigger I would install on a concealed carry handgun. Two separate guns with two separate purposes... For safety reasons, I would not want a handgun used for defensive purposes with a very light trigger, for bullseye shooting at the range I do.
You will find your own trigger preference with experience.

 

[MikeInOr]

I collect mil-surplus WWI and WWII era arms. It is very easy to find a rifle trigger every bit as bad as a handgun trigger. While my target rifles have very crisp 2.5lb breaks on them I wouldn't want to use my target rifles or (or target 1911 pistols) for hunting or even self defense.

It all depends on the particulars of the individual firearm and their design whether it be a rifle, pistol or shotgun.

 

[RRH]

Great!
Thanks everyone for all the good advice!

Further searching revealed some good, detailed information, including on Sigs, and sear designs in general.

As for Mossberg, they indeed have a special design, LBA. "The design of the LBA trigger's sear engagement offers a truly crisp, creep-free trigger, optimizing accuracy. The LBA trigger blade blocks the sear from releasing the striker unless the blade is fully depressed, even at the lightest adjustment setting." I can attest it's creep free, although the pull weight is not low. Neither pre-travel to "wall", nor striker release weight are in question, only the length of travel to striker release, and "crispness", some compare it to braking a glass stick.

Of course, practice is paramount, that's given. I was just surprised at such big difference. Indeed, getting good with factory settings is the best way.

Happy shooting!

 

[Flopsweat]

Great!
Thanks everyone for all the good advice!

Further searching revealed some good, detailed information, including on Sigs, and sear designs in general.

As for Mossberg, they indeed have a special design, LBA. "The design of the LBA trigger's sear engagement offers a truly crisp, creep-free trigger, optimizing accuracy. The LBA trigger blade blocks the sear from releasing the striker unless the blade is fully depressed, even at the lightest adjustment setting." I can attest it's creep free, although the pull weight is not low. Neither pre-travel to "wall", nor striker release weight are in question, only the length of travel to striker release, and "crispness", some compare it to braking a glass stick.

Of course, practice is paramount, that's given. I was just surprised at such big difference. Indeed, getting good with factory settings is the best way.

Happy shooting!

You're welcome. And welcome to NWFA!

 

[po18guy]

Try a Smith Revolver in single action. Will make even the rifle seem like crap. All striker-fired pistols have crappy triggers - it's the design. The difference is the degree of crappiness. The striker cannot fall from the jarring of the slide cycling, so there is a good safety factor engineered in. As well, many striker-fired pistols use that creep to finish cocking the striker, so there's not really any way around it. There are point and quirt guns, not precision shooters; defense guns; close-enough guns.
Rifles are hunting or target weapons for100 yards plus. They are designed with a good trigger as the game or target may be 300 + yards away.
So, one must practice practice practice with striker guns. Live fire is the best as one must generally cycle them for each trigger pull. So the classics of pistol shooting play a huge role in accurate fire. Sight alignment, trigger and breath control and avoidance of flinching. Lots of stuff online or classes at your local range.

 

[RRH]

Try a Smith Revolver in single action. Will make even the rifle seem like crap. All striker-fired pistols have crappy triggers - it's the design. The difference is the degree of crappiness. The striker cannot fall from the jarring of the slide cycling, so there is a good safety factor engineered in. As well, many striker-fired pistols use that creep to finish cocking the striker, so there's not really any way around it. There are point and quirt guns, not precision shooters; defense guns; close-enough guns.
Rifles are hunting or target weapons for100 yards plus. They are designed with a good trigger as the game or target may be 300 + yards away.
So, one must practice practice practice with striker guns. Live fire is the best as one must generally cycle them for each trigger pull. So the classics of pistol shooting play a huge role in accurate fire. Sight alignment, trigger and breath control and avoidance of flinching. Lots of stuff online or classes at your local range.

Ahaaa, ok, makes sense, makes sense
Thank you!
I saw all those great videos above, of course practice, of course live ammo. Dry fire has helped to not spend 3 hours trying to find the red dot though

 

[Flopsweat]

Ahaaa, ok, makes sense, makes sense
Thank you!
I saw all those great videos above, of course practice, of course live ammo. Dry fire has helped to not spend 3 hours trying to find the red dot though

It's very valuable practice. Just be sure to regularly back it up with live fire practice in case you pick up any bad habits in dry fire.