Scary bad trigger discipline

[CLT65]

Sounds a little like my grandfather and his driving a few years back, before he passed away. We loved him dearly and he was a great guy, but his driving got downright scary before the DMV pulled his license (family requested them to). I would not ride with him and for darn sure would not let my kids.

"If it had been ME, everything would have changed with his first gun sweep. No dog in this. But ... I would have quick slapped that gun away, secured his gun arm, then get right into his face and give it to him verbally. Would not hold back. A full no shieter 3 minute full boat lecture about gun control. Would not hit my Father In Law, but almost. His behavior must stop."

WOW. Good plan, if you want him to never forget a lesson in gun safety. Great plan, if you want him to hate you for the rest of his life, might even work wonders on the old marriage if your wife resents you for disrespecting and embarrassing her dad. Personally I think a very stern but respectful conversation would be more effective.

If I was doing something stupid and dangerous, but out of ignorance or misunderstanding, I would sincerely appreciate an immediate and stern, but respectful, "learnin'" on the subject. What I would not appreciate would be someone getting in my face and yelling at me. I'm not in boot camp. I'm not a child. I would learn the lesson all the same, but don't expect me to ever speak to you again.

I only commented here because I saw this very sort of thing just today. I was at the range with a friend and he did something dumb. He was handling a handgun after the range was called cold. It's a gun club range with no range master, but there were several other guys there (nobody I knew).

I wasn't watching or I would have called him on it myself. The gun was unloaded and nobody was downrange yet, but still he should not have been doing it and should have known better. One of the other members there walked over and harshly called him out, really talked down to him in a way that was not called for. He was embarrassed and left without firing another shot.

I suppose the other guy must have really felt like a "big man", but it couldn't have been 20 minutes later I saw him bore-sighting his rifle with guys down range changing targets. Hypocrite.

 

[Flopsweat]

Sounds a little like my grandfather and his driving a few years back, before he passed away. We loved him dearly and he was a great guy, but his driving got downright scary before the DMV pulled his license (family requested them to). I would not ride with him and for darn sure would not let my kids.

"If it had been ME, everything would have changed with his first gun sweep. No dog in this. But ... I would have quick slapped that gun away, secured his gun arm, then get right into his face and give it to him verbally. Would not hold back. A full no shieter 3 minute full boat lecture about gun control. Would not hit my Father In Law, but almost. His behavior must stop."

WOW. Good plan, if you want him to never forget a lesson in gun safety. Great plan, if you want him to hate you for the rest of his life, might even work wonders on the old marriage if your wife resents you for disrespecting and embarrassing her dad. Personally I think a very stern but respectful conversation would be more effective.

If I was doing something stupid and dangerous, but out of ignorance or misunderstanding, I would sincerely appreciate an immediate and stern, but respectful, "learnin'" on the subject. What I would not appreciate would be someone getting in my face and yelling at me. I'm not in boot camp. I'm not a child. I would learn the lesson all the same, but don't expect me to ever speak to you again.

I only commented here because I saw this very sort of thing just today. I was at the range with a friend and he did something dumb. He was handling a handgun after the range was called cold. It's a gun club range with no range master, but there were several other guys there (nobody I knew).

I wasn't watching or I would have called him on it myself. The gun was unloaded and nobody was downrange yet, but still he should not have been doing it and should have known better. One of the other members there walked over and harshly called him out, really talked down to him in a way that was not called for. He was embarrassed and left without firing another shot.

I suppose the other guy must have really felt like a "big man", but it couldn't have been 20 minutes later I saw him bore-sighting his rifle with guys down range changing targets. Hypocrite.

We had to take my Grandfather's car from him after he took out part of a neighbor's fence and then later tapped his own house with the car. My Dad quit driving after he missed a driveway and drove up the lawn of a mall. I'll probably be somewhere in-between. Or we may have all self driving electric cars by then. Well, I don't know, pretty sure I'll keep my regular cars until you can't by dino-juice anymore.

 

[Dan Adams]

So we have visitors from out of town, one of whom is older and, according to the Missus, he "has been around guns all his life."

Okay. So on Saturday we decide to do some shooting. I bring out my .380 and both my 1911 .45's. We are out on our deck. I pick up the Commander, drop the mag and clear it, then hand it to the old fart.

He doesn't clear it for himself, just grabs it and his finger goes right onto the trigger while pointing it at me. For the next few minutes he talks about all the guns he used to own, all the while sweeping me and the Missus. I'm politely stepping from side to side to avoid the business end.

I had serious doubts at this point.

I collect the gun from him and clear it in front of him. No response from him.

We walk down to our small pistol range and do some shooting. He at least keeps the gun pointed down range at all times (credit where credit is due), though his finger never leaves the trigger. At one point towards the end he has a FTF with the Commander. He stops and looks at me for help. I approach and he starts to hand it to me.

I say sharply, "STOP! Take your finger off the trigger!"

I take the gun from him then. Drop the mag and clear it. Then I reload the round, insert the mag and rack a round into the chamber and, holding the top of the pistol pointing it down range, hand it to him so he can finish the load.

The shoot ended shortly after that.

I personally think the shooting should have never started after what happened on the deck. But here's the thing, I had to roll with it because the guy is my father-in-law. Trust me, I'd rather take a bullet than get my wife all riled up from disrespecting her father (kidding!).

Still, I told the Missus afterwards that I did not trust her dad with a pistol after what I saw. She agreed.

I'm just glad I'm still alive to tell the tale.

You're a lot more patient than I would be in that situation! I would have gone home after the first hand-off to your visitor.

Once when shooting at a range, I had the lane next to a guy who had rented a .500 S&W. The range allowed only one round to be chambered at a time by a range officer. (For a good example of why only one round, check out

around the 2:45 mark). I wasn't paying much attention until the first round went off. Whoa! So I stepped back a couple of feet to observe and avoid sucking up the fumes. The range officer reminds the guy to take his finger off the trigger, and then takes the pistol from him to reload it. She (this could happen with either gender) proceeded to set the pistol down on the bench with the barrel pointed left, right down the other five lanes where other shooters were doing their thing. I hesitated just a moment before tapping her on the shoulder and asking her if she remembered the four basic rules of firearm safety. "Of course!" she said. "Then why," I asked, "is that barrel pointed at the other shooters instead of down range?" She blushed deeply but thanked me for the reminder, and promptly turned the pistol so it pointed downrange. I suppose the lesson is, even the best trained and most experienced of us makes gun handling mistakes, and it's up to each of us to step in when that happens and give a mini-lesson in gun handling. No polite stepping from side to side trying not to be swept by the barrel. You're obviously a nice guy sigmadog, maybe a little too nice.

 

[Flopsweat]

You're a lot more patient than I would be in that situation! I would have gone home after the first hand-off to your visitor.

Once when shooting at a range, I had the lane next to a guy who had rented a .500 S&W. The range allowed only one round to be chambered at a time by a range officer. (For a good example of why only one round, check out

around the 2:45 mark). I wasn't paying much attention until the first round went off. Whoa! So I stepped back a couple of feet to observe and avoid sucking up the fumes. The range officer reminds the guy to take his finger off the trigger, and then takes the pistol from him to reload it. She (this could happen with either gender) proceeded to set the pistol down on the bench with the barrel pointed left, right down the other five lanes where other shooters were doing their thing. I hesitated just a moment before tapping her on the shoulder and asking her if she remembered the four basic rules of firearm safety. "Of course!" she said. "Then why," I asked, "is that barrel pointed at the other shooters instead of down range?" She blushed deeply but thanked me for the reminder, and promptly turned the pistol so it pointed downrange. I suppose the lesson is, even the best trained and most experienced of us makes gun handling mistakes, and it's up to each of us to step in when that happens and give a mini-lesson in gun handling. No polite stepping from side to side trying not to be swept by the barrel. You're obviously a nice guy sigmadog, maybe a little too nice.

I few years ago I watched a guy rack a Desert Eagle 50 with his finger inside the trigger guard. I had to tell him that if he couldn't learn to index he was done for the day and not welcome back.

 

[ma96782]

(add picture, this is my safety)

Finger on the trigger in the trigger guard, muzzle pointing or sweeping in an unsafe direction is one thing......

However, there are those that place their finger on the side of a trigger without the finger actually being placed into the trigger guard. And, there are those whom like to place their trigger finger well off to the side of the frame or against the slide.

One is just easier to see. Though both IMHO are acceptable. Assuming that the person actually knows what he is doing.

(add picture, cop w/finger well outside of the trigger guard, however his eotech is mounted backwards)

Really............do you see the REAL problem here?

Aloha, Mark

PS....sorry but it looks like I won't be able to add pictures.

 

[WWShooter]

I don't think screaming at someone is the best way to educate about gun safety. When someone screams at me, it's hard to hear the message while dealing with the instant anger at being yelled at; I'm guessing most people are the same.

I attended a family reunion at which pistols were brought out and fired into an open field - initially no firing line, no targets, just bang, bang bang with a bunch of people standing around, some slightly in front of the shooter. None of them were gun people. I nicely suggested that we needed to establish some basic safety rules, explained the four rules, established a clearly defined firing line, and generally tried to make sure everyone was safe while still having their fun. The reaction was one of gratitude.

The following year at the reunion, I didn't have to say anything; they remembered and observed good safe practices.

 

[CLT65]

Good on you. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to speak up. Often people do dumb and dangerous things out of simple ignorance or blind habit.

It's funny, some people love confrontation and really get something out of getting right up in someone's face and ripping them. Others will avoid confrontation at all cost. As much as I dislike the former type, there are times when a person has to speak up immediately and firmly.

 

[WWShooter]

Good on you. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to speak up. Often people do dumb and dangerous things out of simple ignorance or blind habit.

It's funny, some people love confrontation and really get something out of getting right up in someone's face and ripping them. Others will avoid confrontation at all cost. As much as I dislike the former type, there are times when a person has to speak up immediately and firmly.

Oh, don't get me wrong - this wasn't a negotiation. It was going to be my way or not at all; I just presented it nicely as a safe option.