Salem capitol protests .......Productive.....

[asiparks]

Armed Antifa Attack 'Freedom Rally' at Oregon's Capitol and Police Only Help When Old Man Pulls Gun on Attackers

Black-bloc-clad antifa protesters carrying “guns, bats, skateboards” attacked cars and t

pjmedia.com

it doesn't matter how you frame it, the "old man" made a bad situation much worse for himself.
My " damn, poor guy" reflex stopped the second he decided to pull over and get out.

 

[40Garand]

By this point I hope conservatives and 2A folks have figured out that Antifa, BLM, and liberal tactics and agendas are designed to draw us out so that we physically confront them. They're succeeding on the streets and on social media. They have the web locked up. It's their playground. They post content that they know we'll react to. We are making it easy for them. Our interactions are seen on video and our comments are forever floating around the internet to be used as fuel against us by gun grabbing democrats. The punks are succeeding on the streets and on social media. They are convinced that they won't get mowed down by militias. They are spineless twats who can't fight one on one. They feel safe from consequences because if they get hooked and booked, bail money is waiting for them at the jail and they won't serve time. At this point we just need to ignore them on-line and stop confronting them in the streets. Don't go to the hot spots armed to the teeth in your tacticool or meal team 6 gear. Don't drive your flagged out bro dozers into the mix. Don't coal roll the sheep. Just don't show up! If we actually ignore them then they're the only ones out there looking stupid. They don't have the balls to come marching down roads in rural towns or conservative counties. You won't see them marching through places like Eddyville, Monroe, or Dallas because they know they'll get piled up like cord wood. They're not just focused on helping the gun grabbers either! Obviously they want to help turn the tides on other political topics while they sit back and watch all of our remaining freedoms stripped away as we are marched into a one world order. Well that's my rant for the day.

 

[PDXbiker]

I don't know who was first to plan the protest, but given past history you can bet that if the far right planned a protest that Antifa will show up.

I believe the trucksters advertised their run in advance which Antifa picked up on and were all set and ready with the "welcome wagon" in Salem.

 

[EHJ]

And while I agree with this maybe 'stating their positions' should not include stopping in traffic, getting out and possibly exacerbating the situation.

I just watched the complete video and I am not passing judgement but the guy stopped in moving traffic and got out to confront the ANTIFA members.

While the windshield was already painted if he had just kept moving none of the rest would have happened.

He actually blocked traffic by getting out as other people had to drive around him which could have caused other problems.

it doesn't matter how you frame it, the "old man" made a bad situation much worse for himself.
My " damn, poor guy" reflex stopped the second he decided to pull over and get out.

He was driving down a road. His vehicle windshield was hit with enough paint to bring it to a stop. Maybe he felt he could not see safe enough to drive... you know - because that was the idea of the attacker in the first place... you know... with the paint thrown in the windshield of of a man just driving in solidarity of a political position? To stop and thwart him? Maybe just, "not get involved" and shy into the background...?
Meh.
Guy was attacked with a desire to blind and thwart his God given right to make his voice heard.

Not my play - but it was his. And by the book - technically, he had all the right to defend himself from this attack.

If it was night time - there would have been blinding lasers intent on doing physical harm. Same.

 

[nammac]

so much wrong....

Nothing good ever, ever comes from engaging with a crowd that's not on your side- only outcome is escalation. I would be red hot pissed if someone thew rocks and paint at my car, but my insurance coverage is still good a mile down the road or back at home. I'd rather be indoors with wounded pride then a wounded body.

He did draw his ( unloaded) weapon and it impressed maybe half the crowd. The other half continued goading him.
That was his trump card played- now people are taunting him from 15 feet away so what's the next move ? Fire a warning shot ?- good luck with that.

He had no idea if any of the antifa were carrying- he racked in a round, signalling intent and levelling up from non lethal, ( what the law considers, not what you "feel" might be), to lethal- so it could be argued he's now fair game for someone on the other side to shoot at him.

Hypothetical Q, for those who say if I'm maced, I'm drawing my weapon-- if I'm being maced/bear sprayed, how exactly am I going to be sure of what i'm shooting at ? I've been pepper sprayed and I couldn't see a damn thing. If I was waving a pistol around, it would not have been hard for someone to take it from me. Sure I could fire on that person- what if it's LEO? What if it's someone not trying to get my gun, but pull me to safety ?
As chemical irritants are the primary non lethal method of crowd dispersal, how would you argue your life was in imminent danger ?

Asthma, bronchitis and COPD can all be aggravated by pepper spray/tear gas. And can conceivably cause death, depending on the individual and the amount inhaled/ingested...

Imagine someone who gasps for air because of one of these conditions being exposed to these irritants intended to inflame the air passageways.... Seems to me the perspective could indeed be ones life were in imminent danger...

 

[nammac]

Right. So stay away from the crowd. Don't get out and repeatedly wander to and from your truck.

It's been well over a year now, so if you decide to go where there is a protest, you can't act all surprised if some bubblegum goes down, and not in your favor.

So tell me what right the "peaceful protesters" have to vandalize another individuals property? Or vehicle? Or to be in the street? Impeding traffic?

And what was this over? Because they didn't agree with the drivers message? This is a generation of undisciplined, participation trophy winners that will be put in their place eventually. Conservatives will only tolerate so much bovine manure...

Because one doesn't agree with another's values, thoughts or ideals, is not grounds for a physical attack. Period. Others rights don't end where ones personal feelings begin....

 

[NW Backpacker]

• The video showed him pulling out his gun and pointing it at the anti-fascist protesters after appearing to be maced. He could be heard shouting: 'Get away from me'

Could you make a case, in court, that your life was in danger by being sprayed? How could you know at the moment if the spray would be lethal? See photo of squirt gun in the article.

He only had it pointed at them really while he was racking the slide. Yes, a case for life in danger could be made because his life WAS in danger. They sprayed him and were swarming around him with batons, bear spray (seen in video), are a known violent group, etc. He was fully justified, but due to Oregon's corrupt and super-dumb justice system he may be made an example of, just like Mike Strickland who was also fully justified.

. And then finally pulling out his handgun. Which intimidated no one

Actually, when he pulled it, they did back off - likely preventing more damage to his truck and to him. You can see it in this video posted in comment 15 of the other thread on this incident:

Salem capitol protests .......Productive.....

https://katu.com/news/local/armed-protesters-gather-at-capitol-in-salem-police-say

www.northwestfirearms.com

What I find interesting is how willing almost like they are looking forward to using their firearms in a self defensive situation. Some people think their Rambo or seen to many Hollywood's movies

Avoidance is the best first choice for sure! And I hope I would not have gotten out of my vehicle like he did. But, he did not draw his weapon until they attacked him physically and were surrounding him with weapons - one of which was used to smash the window of his vehicle. Once he drew the weapon, they backed off. He did not go Rambo, or we'd be marveling at the 30 or 40 corpses out on the surrounding lawns and streets. THAT would have been something to see wouldn't it?

 

[NW Backpacker]

Driving away and dealing with the vandalism to his truck would've been the smart option. There is what is right and there is what is practical. I don't cotton to the idea of dealing with a mob on my own.

There is the issue of the guy getting maced. I get that. But it started out being an issue of property damage. I don't know about Oregon but in Wash. state it isn't lawful to use lethal force to protect property. It's hard for people to remember this when they become infuriated by brazen acts against themselves.

Yup, don't stop, don't get out is my choice as well, but....
He did not draw the gun until physically attacked by a mob of known violent leftist nutbags who had lethal weapons in their hands and had already given lethal blows to his truck windows and lights. He drew to protect his life, and it worked - they backed off. Successful defensive use of a gun.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I don't have a life.

 

[a6m5]

Personally, I would call this one a draw?

I would agree that driver made many mistakes, like driving through gathering of nerd ninjas, getting out of the vehicle, etc., etc. At the same time, we are way past broken window theory at this point in our society. These kids have free pass, often even in front of police to destroy, attack with zero consequence.

In my opinion, police needs to start arresting anybody attacking or vandalizing & once they are arrested, we need to actually LOCK THEM UP. Most of the leaders in this state needs to be fired before that happens, and I realize that's pure fantasy in Oregone.

 

[asiparks]

So tell me what right the "peaceful protesters" have to vandalize another individuals property? Or vehicle? Or to be in the street? Impeding traffic?

And what was this over? Because they didn't agree with the drivers message? This is a generation of undisciplined, participation trophy winners that will be put in their place eventually. Conservatives will only tolerate so much bovine manure...

Because one doesn't agree with another's values, thoughts or ideals, is not grounds for a physical attack. Period. Others rights don't end where ones personal feelings begin....

None of those things are right as we very well know.

Should he have had things thrown at his truck-NO
Should he have been pepper sprayed NO,
Should he be able to express his views was laid down under the first amendment- YES.

Unfortunately said righteousnes doesn't come into play in the real world as much as we'd like it to.

 

[RVTECH]

So tell me what right the "peaceful protesters" have to vandalize another individuals property? Or vehicle? Or to be in the street? Impeding traffic?

You are correct - the 'peaceful protestors' have NO right to any of this.

However it is also apparent Law Enforcement is doing little to nothing to prevent or stop any of it so maybe common sense should be called upon and one should ask him or herself is the risk worth the gain?

If you choose to assemble with a group knowing full well your 'message' may very well not be popular with the opposition then you should be prepared and fully expect a certain amount of retaliation - and this also means you need to exhibit a degree of self control as well.

His stopping in traffic, getting out to confront the guys did nothing but make the situation worse, got himself arrested and at the end of the day he STILL had paint on his windshield, broken lights and whatever else.

So what did he accomplish? What great 'statement' did he make?

When he got out of his vehicle he lowered himself to the level of the ANTIFA members and negated the 'dignity' of the 'freedom' rally as it was called.

 

[asiparks]

He only had it pointed at them really while he was racking the slide. Yes, a case for life in danger could be made because his life WAS in danger. They sprayed him and were swarming around him with batons, bear spray (seen in video), are a known violent group, etc. He was fully justified, but due to Oregon's corrupt and super-dumb justice system he may be made an example of, just like Mike Strickland who was also fully justified.



Actually, when he pulled it, they did back off - likely preventing more damage to his truck and to him. You can see it in this video posted in comment 15 of the other thread on this incident:

Salem capitol protests .......Productive.....

https://katu.com/news/local/armed-protesters-gather-at-capitol-in-salem-police-say

www.northwestfirearms.com

Avoidance is the best first choice for sure! And I hope I would not have gotten out of my vehicle like he did. But, he did not draw his weapon until they attacked him physically and were surrounding him with weapons - one of which was used to smash the window of his vehicle. Once he drew the weapon, they backed off. He did not go Rambo, or we'd be marveling at the 30 or 40 corpses out on the surrounding lawns and streets. THAT would have been something to see wouldn't it?

What if he'd just not gotten himself into a situation where he had to even consider drawing his weapon.

When he decided to pull over and get out, everything then became worse for him.
He put himself in greater danger.
He put his life at greater risk Simple as that.
No decision he made after that was going to lead to a better outcome.

First part of self defense is a realistic evaluation of the situation. Not what you wish it was, or feel it should be in world of fairness and polite behavior....

 

[nammac]

None of those things are right as we very well know.

Should he have had things thrown at his truck-NO
Should he have been pepper sprayed NO,
Should he be able to express his views was laid down under the first amendment- YES.

Unfortunately said righteousnes doesn't come into play in the real world as much as we'd like it to.

It's not righteousness, it's the effective silencing of those who oppose the fascist's who claim to be anti-fascist... If only one side has a voice then AmeriKa has already been lost...

 

[SrMachoSolo]

I just watched the video... how can so many people (the mob mentality) be so dumb? How.

Is this a result of spoiled and entitled children, allowed to run wild, facing no consequences for their actions?

-Robert

 

[NW Backpacker]

I agree completely but the problem is they ain't be 'dealt with swiftly' so knowing this why aggravate the situation ?

A good time to repeat, 'Just because you can doesn't mean you should'

Agree to a point, BUT since the cops are not dealing with the violent leftist nutbags AT ALL, we don't need to put up with their violence forever. It is actually WAY past time that they were taught a hard lesson. This incident did not accomplish that unfortunately.

- Stage a protest that will draw armed counter-protestors.

The original protest in this case was by another group, not by antifa. Antifa came to confront that group:

Armed Antifa Attack 'Freedom Rally' at Oregon's Capitol and Police Only Help When Old Man Pulls Gun on Attackers

Black-bloc-clad antifa protesters carrying “guns, bats, skateboards” attacked cars and t

pjmedia.com

Facebook

www.facebook.com

There are three main arguments that anti-fascists use to justify their occasional violence.

Let no one be deceived; antifa ARE the fascists in these protests. Just like the "woke" mobs of cancel culture - they are also fascists.

If it was night time - there would have been blinding lasers intent on doing physical harm.

I read that lasers were pointed at drivers eyes in this protest.

Unfortunately said righteousnes doesn't come into play in the real world as much as we'd like it to.

Because we put up with it, and the time for doing that is nearing the end.

 

[NW Backpacker]

I just watched the video... how can so many people (the mob mentality) be so dumb? How.

Is this a result of spoiled and entitled children, allowed to run wild, facing no consequences for their actions?

-Robert

Public schools and liberalism. Everyone gets a trophy. If you have a different opinion to me, you should lose your job, be harrassed, or shot, etc (fascism). Small children should choose the gender they want. Men should compete with women in sports. Blah, blah, blah. No discipline combined with the mental illness of liberalism. I believe much of it is done intentionally to destroy our country so it can be replaced by a one-world, unarmed, socialist utopia. It's working because we allow it!

 

[BigDog67]

It's been well over a year now, so if you decide to go where there is a protest, you can't act all surprised if some bubblegum goes down, and not in your favor.

It HAS been well over a year. And why in the bubbleguming hell has the scum been arrested or shot?

 

[RVTECH]

And why in the bubbleguming hell hasn't the scum been arrested or shot?

I fixed it for you but this would be a question better asked of Governors, mayors, Police Chiefs etc. of the most affected states.

 

[BigDog67]

Thanks for the fix. As for the other, it may come a time to circumvent those boar's tits.