Salem capitol protests .......Productive.....

[The Heretic]

No, this isn't a 3rd world country with no-go zones because little communists want to run around mad. They need to be dealt with swiftly, and that is exactly the kind of placating that is continuing to embolden a lot of these freaks.

And this guy really dealt with them?

Look. This is the reality; if you try to antagonize people like this by showing opposition during their "protest" don't be surprised if they respond and not peacefully. Going there like some of the people did is the equivalent of asking for a fight, and they got it. Let the OSP/LE deal with them - you are not going to change their minds by driving thru the area with a US flag waving from your vehicle and Trump stickers plastered on it.

If you want to fight them, don't be surprised if you wind up in jail and court.

 

[American123]

Consider that brownshirts in the 1930's used similar tactics and then eventually when they gained/asserted more political power, then it wasn't just clashes in the street, it was murdering people in their homes. Do we seriously think that if these wastes of the American dream were not currently in the political minority that they wouldn't happily commit some mass violence against their opposition.

I have no desire to waste my life or time mixing it up with these losers, but as things continue to escalate as they have, it seems you could not seek out confrontation and still end up with it finding you.

 

[asiparks]

@CRBMoA as you've made it really tricky to quote your reply-

That's why it says "hypothetical" ,so I'm not sure it if understand your replies in red. I'm arguing AGAINST drawing a sidearm in a situation, like the guy in the video, where he had a clear path and means to withdraw.

"Hypothetical Q, for those who say if I'm maced, I'm drawing my weapon-- if I'm being maced/bear sprayed, how exactly am I going to be sure of what i'm shooting at ? Who said anything about shooting?" So I'm just holding my drawn weapon as a deterrent- hoping all the bad guys will flee ? terrible idea, as demonstrated in the video.

"I've been pepper sprayed and I couldn't see a damn thing. If I was waving a pistol around, it would not have been hard for someone to take it from me. Who said anything about waving?" ok, so not waving, but held at low ready, close into my body- I still can't identify a threat, I still have my gun out and visible- I'm no less vunerable, now with a bonus prize of a free gun.

"Sure I could fire on that person- what if it's LEO? Who said anything about discharging randomly?????????" Are you intentionally missing the first part of my sentence ? Where you can't see and someone is trying to take the weapon away ?

"What if it's someone not trying to get my gun, but pull me to safety ? Kinda flunked the 'Good First Impression' test by trashing the rig and macing the driver." Well, again, if you didn't just select bits, but read the whole thing....you can't see and have no idea who's closet to you- and it's a long leap from macing and property damage to standing by while some one tries to kill someone. I've been in and seen enough fights where people have stepped in and stopped it when things escalated beyond a certain point.

"As chemical irritants are the primary non lethal method of crowd dispersal, how would you argue your life was in imminent danger ? You must have seen SOMEONE beaten in the street in the last year, so I am not too sure you are serious here. If you are, then all I am gonna say is if you think that crowd was there for a car wash more power to ya!"
Yes, I have seen a couple and they all lived.
It's called fighting. I've yet to see one that would justify someone getting shot. If your answer to any chance of getting a black eye, some cuts or a broken nose is to kill, then you are a very bubblegumed up person.
My gun is one defensive tool, not the defensive answer. I carry, every day, round chambered. it is my very, very last resort and I go out of my way to avoid using it. It's not getting drawn unless there is absolutely no other option, and in 99.9999% of circumstances there is if you have half a brain.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Further suppressing the rights of one group over the vandalism of another... If the legislators actually did their job, they'd not have to ban firearms at the Capitol...

They are doing exactly what their constituency elected them to do .. You are not in their constituency

 

[CRBMoA]

My primary interest in having my hand on my sidearm is specifically, in your scenario, I am blinded by my new friends and I need to control my weapon so it doesn't do anything to me or others that I wouldn't allow. Cannot protect my handgun, and especially keep it from being taken from me, while blind, without having a hand on it, drawn or not.

Basically, if I found MYSELF in that situation I would make a mental note that I failed to pay attention to my surroundings and if I get out alive I should learn from it.

Drawing his weapon actually may have worked, from another perspective, as he did not get his butt kicked. Having only one POV, we will never know.

I would disagree that holding my firearm while blind is worse than leaving it unattended in my holster while blind. To each his own.

I do not shoot that which I cannot see, so the question "who said anything about shooting?" was a response to your query, poorly worded on my part.

RE: pepper spray being non-lethal - agreed. However, I still don't think they crowd was band kids raising money, so if you CHOOSE to blind me, I am going to swing at anything I can hit like the Third Monkey fighting for a seat on the Ark. But that's just me, and me wouldn't have been there in the first place.

And before you say it, YES, I realize that I may happen upon a crowd (still my poor planning) or they could actually be initiating contact. In either case, Priority One is to get home.

Also - MY first sentence - " Agree that my first thought is he should have not been there, but the signage on the truck indicates he is not shy about expressing himself. ".

We are not that far apart in our views. I think the driver made a multitude of errors before the video starts. But once the pepper spray is flying, HOW you got there is academic - how you get out, not so much.

Peace.

 

[PiratePast40]

No, this isn't a 3rd world country with no-go zones because little communists want to run around mad. They need to be dealt with swiftly, and that is exactly the kind of placating that is continuing to embolden a lot of these freaks.

Look what actually happened. The man tried to defend himself and the antifa thugs were able to get away with further assault and property damage. It does no good for a citizen to try to interfere. Those places ARE no-go zones, just like third world countries, and the criminals are protected by the police.

 

[mhayd93]

And this guy really dealt with them?

Look. This is the reality; if you try to antagonize people like this by showing opposition during their "protest" don't be surprised if they respond and not peacefully. Going there like some of the people did is the equivalent of asking for a fight, and they got it. Let the OSP/LE deal with them - you are not going to change their minds by driving thru the area with a US flag waving from your vehicle and Trump stickers plastered on it.

If you want to fight them, don't be surprised if you wind up in jail and court.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but isn't it the other way around? I thought that the Antifa vandals/instigators were crashing some sort of conservative protest?

 

[Knobgoblin]

It seems all you need to do to attract them is announce Freedom Rally and they will show up.

I would like hear peoples ideas for an antifa proof vehicle based on a beater truck, van, etc. At minimum you would need rock proof windows and some design to be able to see where you are driving after they pelted your windows with paint filled balloons.

 

[STONER_63]

Antifa, et. al. have their TTPs down cold.

- Stage a protest that will draw armed counter-protestors.
- Confront likely targets with less-than lethal weapons. What is a likely target? Try a white guy in a pick-up truck with an American flag on it, and maybe some Magpul or Sig stickers on the back window.
- If you can get your target to draw a gun on you after you assault him with rocks or sticks, congratulations! You are David facing down Goliath himself.

We need to be smart enough to know when we are being targeted in this way. Iraq and Afghanistan vets should be familiar with this tactic already. Provocation is popular with guerillas, insurgents and street thugs because it works! Especially in a charged political environment like ours. Keep emotion out of it, and don't go kinetic unless you are protecting life, limb or eyesight; for the rest, there's insurance.

For anyone interested, here is an excerpt from 'Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook.' I put the interesting parts in bold.

In truth, violence represents a small though vital sliver of anti-fascist activity.

There are three main arguments that anti-fascists use to justify their occasional violence.

First, as explained in Chapter 4, anti-fascists make a historical argument based on the accurate observation that "rational debate" and the institutions of government have failed to consistently halt the rise of fascism. Given that fact, they argue that the only hope to prevent a sequel is to physically prevent any potential fascist advance.

Second, they point to the many successful examples of militant anti-fascism shutting down or severely hampering far-right organizing since the end of World War II.

Third, fascist violence often necessitates self-defense—although anti-fascists challenge conventional interpretations of self-defense grounded in individualistic personal ethics by legitimating offensive tactics in order to forestall the potential need for literal self-defense down the line.

In other words, anti-fascists don't wait for a fascist threat to become violent before acting to shut it down, physically if
necessary. As Murray from Baltimore ARA explained it, 'You fight them by writing letters and making phone calls so you don't have to fight them with fists. You fight them with fists so you don't have to fight them with knives. You fight them with knives so you don't have to fight them with guns. You fight them with guns so you don't have to fight them with tanks.'

 

[BigDog67]

All I can say is;

 

[asiparks]

My primary interest in having my hand on my sidearm is specifically, in your scenario, I am blinded by my new friends and I need to control my weapon so it doesn't do anything to me or others that I wouldn't allow. Cannot protect my handgun, and especially keep it from being taken from me, while blind, without having a hand on it, drawn or not.

well, I would hope that my concealed weapon would still be concealed, but you never know... That said I would rather have two hands, elbows and arms in the fight, than leave one side of my head and body open by having my hand at my hip.

We are not that far apart in our views. I think the driver made a multitude of errors before the video starts. But once the pepper spray is flying, HOW you got there is academic - how you get out, not so much.

Peace.

 

[EHJ]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Everyone now trying to allow, justify, condone and excuse people for spraying chemical agents into each others faces.
And even if not - there seems to be some sort of twisted proposition defending such actions and arguing against a proper defensive cum offensive position in such a situation.

"It's just property damage - it's not real violence!"

Someone came prepared to spray another person with tear gas. And it's being condoned more and more everyday.

To hell with the excuses and lamentations.
If you put my health, safety or life in danger - I'm responding with overwhelming force.

 

[The Heretic]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but isn't it the other way around? I thought that the Antifa vandals/instigators were crashing some sort of conservative protest?

I don't know who was first to plan the protest, but given past history you can bet that if the far right planned a protest that Antifa will show up.

 

[The Heretic]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Everyone now trying to allow, justify, condone and excuse people for spraying chemical agents into each others faces.

Not everyone.

I am saying that a person should not go looking for trouble.

 

[CRBMoA]

well, I would hope that my concealed weapon would still be concealed, but you never know... That said I would rather have two hands, elbows and arms in the fight, than leave one side of my head and body open by having my hand at my hip.

I actually envision a very low ready with both hands and my gun pointed down between my crouched knees. I think M. Tyson said something about everyone having a plan until they get punched in the face.

Plan A is to avoid the situation if at all possible in the first place.

I was telling a gal in my office on Friday about what CC'ing actually does to your mindset and overall attention level. She mentioned that she saw me react to whispers outside my peripheral vision. I told her I know everything that is going on in this office. My head is on a swivel and when we hear a bump outside I am the first one out of my chair.

Stay safe!

 

[EHJ]

Not everyone.

I am saying that a person should not go looking for trouble.

Yeah - I should have prefaced all that with that being a given...

But I think we're gonna see a lot more old patriots getting completely disenfranchised with the current political climate and having more desire to state their positions.

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah - I should have prefaced all that with that being a given...

But I think we're gonna see a lot more old patriots getting completely disenfranchised with the current political climate and having more desire to state their positions.

Maybe, but while I have a temper, it will take a lot more than some idiots spray painting the capital (or something like that) to get me involved at a physical level - i.e., I stay away from "protests" as I do not want to be anywhere near idiots on either side of those issues who think that such "protests" do any good.

 

[RicInOR]

Armed Antifa Attack 'Freedom Rally' at Oregon's Capitol and Police Only Help When Old Man Pulls Gun on Attackers

Black-bloc-clad antifa protesters carrying “guns, bats, skateboards” attacked cars and t

pjmedia.com

 

[RVTECH]

But I think we're gonna see a lot more old patriots getting completely disenfranchised with the current political climate and having more desire to state their positions.

And while I agree with this maybe 'stating their positions' should not include stopping in traffic, getting out and possibly exacerbating the situation.

I just watched the complete video and I am not passing judgement but the guy stopped in moving traffic and got out to confront the ANTIFA members.

While the windshield was already painted if he had just kept moving none of the rest would have happened.

He actually blocked traffic by getting out as other people had to drive around him which could have caused other problems.

My point being is I was somewhat empathetic with the guy when I saw the confrontation but had a different opinion when I saw him get out, block traffic and approach the ANTIFA members.

 

[STONER_63]

And while I agree with this maybe 'stating their positions' should not include stopping in traffic, getting out and possibly exacerbating the situation.

I just watched the complete video and I am not passing judgement but the guy stopped in moving traffic and got out to confront the ANTIFA members.

While the windshield was already painted if he had just kept moving none of the rest would have happened.

He actually blocked traffic by getting out as other people had to drive around him which could have caused other problems.

Like the old Vietnam vet next door always used to tell me: stay low, keep moving.