Report: BLM Committed ‘Intrusive, Oppressive Militaristic Trespass’ Against Cliven Bundy

[ZigZagZeke]

https://radiofreeredoubt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Larry-Wooten-Communication_77PI.pdf

 

[SHPD_Retired]

Minor details, but last I heard, it was OSP who killed Mr. Finnicum; not the feds...

The BLM was doing the same thing to the miners near Grants Pass. It's a good thing enough human shields were down there..

I do believe you are right but the Feds were the ones who were shooting at the Finnicum car even before it got stopped and they are the ones who lied about it, removing evidence from the scene. I do believe they are also the ones who orchestrated the whole thing so that is why I referred to them. I hate to say this about a fellow law enforcement officer but they, and the state police, in this incident, were way out of line.

 

[41mag]

I haven't read a whole lot about this

of what you wrote here other than this phrase, most of the rest is simply wrong.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

There are a lot of details on the Bundy incident in Utah, to go through; I also wonder about the two ranchers who were jailed under a terrorism conviction (burning brush).

It is our duty to keep the government in line (peacefully as possible).

 

[Mikej]

Actually, it was the Fed's/OSP that did the killing along with having a kill list...........
https://radiofreeredoubt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Larry-Wooten-Communication_77PI.pdf



Ray

BLM investigator alleges misconduct by feds in Bundy ranch standoff

Thank you for taking the time to post those for me. From scanning through it, it looks like the Feds had a big part in this whole thing getting so messed up.

of what you wrote here other than this phrase, most of the rest is simply wrong.

So you're saying that Bundy and clan did faithfuly pay their grazing fees for the last twenty years?

 

[41mag]

So you're saying that Bundy and clan did faithfuly pay their grazing fees for the last twenty years?

there's way more to this issue than you have addressed on both who-did-what and why-they-left-out-details. I don't have time to summarize the circumstance. When this all started out I believed it was a crazed rancher trying to get out of paying grazing fees. And given the question of whether my own sources were accurate remains unproven. What I believe may be totally wrong....Check what Bundy has said about his paying grazing fees.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There are a lot of details on the Bundy incident in Utah, to go through; I also wonder about the two ranchers who were jailed under a terrorism conviction (burning brush).

It is our duty to keep the government in line (peacefully as possible).

Here is a very good summary of the Hammond situation. It will make you very angry:
Bundy Ranch: Facts & Events in the Hammond Case

 

[clearconscience]

Look I supported the ideals behind their protest, but they took it too far. Finnicum ran from a police stop, right or wrong he caused his own death.
His fight should have been in the courts and like the others he would have won, he played a stupid game and because of it he lost his life.

The bundy's decided to stop paying their grazing fees in Nevada and that when the govt over reaching hand got all imperial. Again, they caused the fight.

So while I agree the need is there to stand up to the over reaching power hungry govt entities, they fought it wrongly, and have suffered for it.

Out of all of the loss of life, injury, legal fees, what did they win?

We can only hope trump starts dismantling the BLM and other federal agencies that cause this over reach.

 

[Sandaholic]

Look I supported the ideals behind their protest, but they took it too far. Finnicum ran from a police stop, right or wrong he caused his own death.
His fight should have been in the courts and like the others he would have won, he played a stupid game and because of it he lost his life.

The bundy's decided to stop paying their grazing fees in Nevada and that when the govt over reaching hand got all imperial. Again, they caused the fight.

So while I agree the need is there to stand up to the over reaching power hungry govt entities, they fought it wrongly, and have suffered for it.

Out of all of the loss of life, injury, legal fees, what did they win?

We can only hope trump starts dismantling the BLM and other federal agencies that cause this over reach.

This may be neither here nor there, but since you shared your opinion I'll ask for it again. Do you feel the same way about Ruby Ridge and Waco? You could say they invited the Feds into their lives as well. Or some participants did anyway. Sometimes those that enforce the law just get it wrong. And in these instances IMO they got it wrong. I think at times the government gets away with too much. They should be behaving in a manner that places them above reproach. Whether that is possible to do or not they better damn sure try. And often that doesn't seem to be the case.

I think they just at times like to make examples. And they slap down people with impunity. Wasn't Finnicum heading to a meeting with a sympathetic Sheriff in another County? I think the Feds saw that and said nope. You will comply and people will see if anyone goes against us we have no problem killing you.

Couple that with some of the wrongs that are coming to light and none of it looks good. I agree we should all try not to invite the law into our lives, but people have to make a stand at some point.

 

[Goosebrown]

I think the Feds at ruby ridge and Waco went overboard. With the bundys they were close to exemplary when it got bad enough for both sides to confront each other. The BLM leading up to the Nevada standoff, not so much.

Once the stand offs were underway, they did not open fire and lots of people got to go home. That's a positive outcome.

 

[clearconscience]

I think in all 3 cases the victims, and I will call them victims, did something wrong and they should have to pay for that.
But the govt ABSOLUTELY murdered people.
They used excessive force, force they don't use on BLM, Antifa, Anti-wall streeters, and any other liberal soros fed terrorist group.

But I can't sit back and condone their activities that led to Federal interactions.
The thing the liberal anti America groups learned is to fight the govt through social media justice warriors, and through lawsuits.
As much as I hate them, I have to admit they are winning their battles

 

[clearconscience]

And to be honest I could careless about the Branch Davidians, they were a bunch of crazy cultist, and child molesters.

Many were murdered, but again, they made that happen.

I truly feel for the family at Ruby Ridge. They seemed like good old fashioned Anericans. Their downfall was becoming close with the white supremist group near them.

And Finnicum made a bad decision. He got himself killed the second he ran from the road block.

However, Feds absolutley went overboard, and forced violence.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

So much not to be said about where the DOI gets their training in regards to dealing with "belligerent" people on public land.....so much.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There's a lot of propaganda being spewed by the media. It's clear that Finnicum ran from the original stop because he was either being fired at or thought that he was. The road block where he "charged the officer" was set up on a blind curve so that he would have no choice but to crash into it. They were headed to a public meeting in Grant County. Sheriff Palmer of Grant County was going to be at that same meeting, along with a couple hundred Grant County residents. Palmer didn't arrest them when they met with him for the same reason that the FBI and the Malheur County sheriff didn't arrest them when they met with them. Were they all sympathetic?

BLM Special Agent in Charge, Dan Love, was proven to be corrupt and a cowboy operating outside the law with no effective supervision. He was shown to be incompetent and a bully. He's since been fired for his abuses. All but a couple of the defendants in the Malheur standoff and the Bundy ranch standoff have been acquitted. The BLM and the DOJ were proven to have withheld exculpatory information from the defense and the court in both cases.

The government agencies involved have been proven to be operating outside the law, and outside of any standards of justice and decency. When people stand up to such tyranny in the only way they know how, they are vilified by the liberal, government controlled media, and painted as armed radicals. If you fall for that story line shame on you. Now actually go read the story of the Hammonds above. These are real people caught up in the international crimes of high government officials. Their crime was owning land underneath which there is a large amount of uranium that Hillary wanted to sell to the Russians. The Hammonds are friends of friends of mine. They are ordinary people just trying to maintain a way of life that they've been living for 50 years, and that many others, including relatives of mine have been living for 150 years. The American public doesn't have a clue what the real situation is.

 

[clearconscience]

Did they stop paying for the grazing rights?

 

[Mikej]

And Finnicum would be alive today, most likely, if he'd done what he was told to do. Corrupt agents/police officers? Maybe. But as sure as every firearm negligent/accidental shooting involves violation of one or more of the four basic rules, Finnicum got himself killed because he ignored order from the police. It's just that simple. Why do people keep ignoring that?

 

[nehalemguy]

Did they stop paying for the grazing rights?

I think the bigger question is why did they stop paying for grazing rights.

My understanding is that over a period of many years the BLM had used the fees and terms of the leases like a club against area ranchers. Bundy finally had enough, snapped, and gave a big middle finger to the BLM.

 

[clearconscience]

Exactly, he broke his agreement and therefore violated what he was supposed to do. You want to stop paying fine, but you don't get the feed for free.
He should have fought it in court the right way and gained public outcry, instead he made himself a target.

I hate the BLM and most over reaching Anti-American govt agencies, but you fight them the right way.
You go rogue, people die, and you lose support for your cause. Our cause.

Then your just another anti govt redneck who no one will remember and the fight means nothing.

 

[nehalemguy]

Exactly, he broke his agreement and therefore violated what he was supposed to do. You want to stop paying fine, but you don't get the feed for free.
He should have fought it in court the right way and gained public outcry, instead he made himself a target.

I hate the BLM and most over reaching Anti-American govt agencies, but you fight them the right way.
You go rogue, people die, and you lose support for your cause. Our cause.

Then your just another anti govt redneck who no one will remember and the fight means nothing.

Going to court doesn't always resolve these issues...even when the court rules in your favor.

There was a Oregon case about 10-12 years ago where the BLM notified a private property owner that they believed his home to be encroaching over on to BLM property. The only problem was that County records showed different and that his home was firmly on the private side. Off to court they went.

The Court ruled in favor of the private owner, saying that the BLM could not arbitrarily ignore over 150 years of recorded property holdings.

The BLM responded with a "that's nice" and to this day still claims that they are right and that the home is over the line.

I'm not saying that I agree with Bundy's actions....but I kinda understand them.

 

[JRuby]

The liberal media has done the same type of hatchet job on Bundy as they are doing on Trump. The amount owed is a small amount of grazing fees and a large amount of penalties and interest, just like with the IRS. Please read up on all that has happened in this case. The BLM is being controlled and manipulated by eco-nazi and animal rights groups. Part of the new discovery materials was a government report saying that there was no evidence that any desert tortoises had been injured by the cattle. BLM has been arbitrarily reducing grazing permit acreage at the behest of the eco-nazi groups based on the thinnest of excuses.

Ranchers with grazing allotments are not mooching off the public. Grazing rights to public land must be attached to privately owned adjacent land. When private land that has these grazing rights attached is sold the sale price includes the value of the grazing rights, and the owner then pays taxes on that land in addition to grazing fees because that assessed value is added to that of the privately owned land. And BTW, grazing fees are not meant to support the cost of the grazing allotment program or land maintenance.

You mean it's an entitlement aka a hand out to the ranchers.