Rabbit Starvation vs Very Lowfat diets.

[arakboss]

I have read about people getting sick and even dying from trying to live on a diet of lean meat like rabbit. This has been referred to as Protein Poisoning but is supposedly due to the lack of fat in the diet?

Then we have some Vegan starch type diet proponents that promote ultra low fat diets fat with recommendations of 10% or less fat in your diet. This is supposedly very healthy.

How can both of these be true? Is the healthy window of fat we should consume so narrow, that at 10% it's really healthy but at some level under that you die?


Edit: The reason I am asking is because I plan on significantly upping my protein intake and reducing carbs and fat. I don't want to end up with Protein Poisoning but some starvation would be helpful. Internet says the average human can only convert up to 1000 calories of energy from protein, no matter how much you eat. That sounds good to me.

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[arakboss]

This guy seems to think 35% of calories from protein is near the healthy threshold. That will mean lots of calories will still need to come from fat and or carbs. That means I won't have to worry about eating less than 10% of calories from fat.

 

[CamoDeafie]

For what its worth; my former nutritionist instructor told me that as long as one eats a minimum of 1500 calories a day to maintain base metabolism, one can significantly lose weight if they are active at minimum of 30 minutes a day. She did point out that one can eat 1500-200 a day and be less active and not lose much weight than being active, regardless of diet.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Disclaimer: I'm not a nutritionist and don't play one on T.V. so this is just an opinion I've formed over the last 70 plus years of experience...

First, some background. I'm a very healthy 78 going on 79. I own a ranch and do a lot of physical labor...a lot. I blow through around 3500 calories a day to maintain a weight of 190.

It's been my experience that it's as much about what you do and listening to your body as it is about what and how much you eat. Genetics also plays a roll. My approach is pretty simple. I eat what and when and how much my body tells me to. I eat a well balanced diet of fresh organically grown/raised foods. Occasionally my body gets a craving for something laden with carbs, fat or protein. I eat whatever it takes to satisfy the craving. I figure that's my body's way of telling me what it needs. Be aware that your brain is a crafty liar and will hit you with cravings that aren't healthy. Sugar is a good example. When I was younger, before I had this figured out, I used to get cravings for candy. I beat it by eating a slice of bread every time I craved candy. Eventually that craving went away. Also be aware that processed foods are laden with crap that I consider to be addictive...like sugar. So, do your best to avoid any processed foods.

In the end, it's all about a natural balance. Balanced exercise, balanced natural nutrition and balanced mindset.

 

[3MTA3]

After a LOT of experimentation and paying attention to my body I have found that High fat, Moderate protein, and Scant carbs works the best. The only drawback is that my body adjusts so well and feel so satisfied I sometimes forget to eat which results in sluggishness until I figure it out and eat. I've lost over a hundred pounds this way and continue. A bonus of this ratio is that the liver will process the fats quickly so they don't have time to oxidize and contribute to heart disease.

I've tried all the combinations you can imagine.

Low fat high carb (as nearly every nutritionist and MD will try to cram down your throat) for me resulted in lack of energy, insane weight gain (400 lbs at peak) and diabetes. I'm convinced this Dietary Dogma is why there is so much diabetes.

High protein, Moderate fat, Scant carbs worked well for weight loss but was not sustainable. After three months I lost a fair amount of weight but felt miserable and couldn't wait until the next "diet vacation". Basically it just wore me out and I went back to old habits until I started listening to my body instead of doctors or books.

Carbs in general: I think our bodies are designed to eat carbs in the fall harvest season so they will fatten us up for winter survival. If you HAVE to eat them don't eat refined carbs - whole wheat not white flour, etc.. Include plenty of fiber when you do to slow them down as much as possible. Otherwise, the rapid blood sugar changes will cause you to crave and eat more carbs.

 

[RicInOR]

I have read about people getting sick and even dying from trying to live on a diet of lean meat like rabbit. This has been referred to as Protein Poisoning but is supposedly due to the lack of fat in the diet?

This article seems to explain what you are concerned with:
(not just on eating rabbit, it is about the lean meats)

Rabbit meat nutrition facts, calories, and health benefits

Rabbit meat is a type of white meat that is lower in fats and calories than other meats. It is richer in proteins and lower in cholesterol. Rabbit meat is high in vitamin B12.

foodstruct.com

 

[ma96782]

I mean like.........

Who really cares?

Rrrrrrright......get hit by a bus as you're crossing the street.

So? Are you trying to be the most handsome body at the funeral home? LOL.

Aloha, Mark

PS.......everything in moderation.

 

[arakboss]

This article seems to explain what you are concerned with:
(not just on eating rabbit, it is about the lean meats)

Rabbit meat nutrition facts, calories, and health benefits

Rabbit meat is a type of white meat that is lower in fats and calories than other meats. It is richer in proteins and lower in cholesterol. Rabbit meat is high in vitamin B12.

foodstruct.com

Good article, it looks like it won't be an issue for me. I will also eat some fatty meats to go along with my limited carbs and chicken breast.

I tried low carb before and felt like crap pretty much the entire time. This time I am going to baby step my way into it. Starting tomorrow I will limit my carbs to 100 grams of net carbs per day and then Saturday after next I will drop that down to 75 grams of net carbs per day. In beginning of May I will drop it down to 50 grams per day and leave it there. I am going to really buckle down this time and avoid cheat meals.

Went shopping this morning and picked up a few items to get me going. You know what they say, protein, protein, protein.


Edit: I will be watching lot's of Steak and Butter Gal's videos for tips on high protein dieting.

https://www.youtube.com/c/SteakandButterGal/featured

 

[mrblond]

I had read somewhere that the low carb ( keto) diets are ones you have to stay on as if you cheat, that sudden rush of glucose into the blood steam can damage the smaller blood vessels.

 

[ma96782]

Get GOUT and you'll wish that you never started that high meat content diet.

But of course......
Individuals vary.


Aloha, Mark

 

[arakboss]

For what its worth; my former nutritionist instructor told me that as long as one eats a minimum of 1500 calories a day to maintain base metabolism, one can significantly lose weight if they are active at minimum of 30 minutes a day. She did point out that one can eat 1500-200 a day and be less active and not lose much weight than being active, regardless of diet.

I can loose weight at 1500 calories a day. The problem is sticking to 1500 calories a day. Because of how much energy the body uses to process protein, I will be able to eat more protein calories than carb and fat calories.

 

[FALshot]

For what its worth; my former nutritionist instructor told me that as long as one eats a minimum of 1500 calories a day to maintain base metabolism, one can significantly lose weight if they are active at minimum of 30 minutes a day. She did point out that one can eat 1500-200 a day and be less active and not lose much weight than being active, regardless of diet.

^^ This is sage advice.

Seems clear that this is a firearms forum and thus, this is NOT professional advice.

So, beyond maintaining a minimum daily calorie intake, if you are going to take supplements or go to a higher than normal range of protein intake, (about double the RDA) it is critical to hydrate liberally or risk damaging your kidneys. (Renal function.)

Kidney damage from extremely high protein diets and excessive supplement use has become commonplace in a clinical environment.

Best of luck.

 

[arakboss]

I had read somewhere that the low carb ( keto) diets are ones you have to stay on as if you cheat, that sudden rush of glucose into the blood steam can damage the smaller blood vessels.

I believe cheating is why my previous low carb effort was rough on me. It might be like a multi fuel vehicle where it runs poorly when switching from one fuel source to another until it fully transitions to the new fuel. I know the body can chew gum and walk at the same time but with major changes in the diet, it may need a transition period to adapt. If you don't transistion properly you may get stuck in a permanent transition period. Just guessing on all this.

I haven't heard about the blood vessel issue but I will research it.

 

[arakboss]

^^ This is sage advice.

Seems clear that this is a firearms forum and thus, this is NOT professional advice.

So, beyond maintaining a minimum daily calorie intake, if you are going to take supplements or go to a higher than normal range of protein intake, (about double the RDA) it is critical to hydrate liberally or risk damaging your kidneys. (Renal function.)

Kidney damage from extremely high protein diets and excessive supplement use has become commonplace in a clinical environment.

Best of luck.

Lots of fluids, check. Electrolyte supplement, check. I don't want renal failure, that sounds negative.

 

[Certaindeaf]

 

[FALshot]

Lots of fluids, check. Electrolyte supplement, check. I don't want renal failure, that sounds negative.

Sounds as though you may be committed to this. If so, drink between 3 and 4 liters of water every day.
(☆Again, this is not medical advice. )

 

[No_Regerts]

I think the individual's approach should be influenced by their health needs. The one-size-fits-all nutrition plan has resulted in 50% of Americans being some form of insulin resistant. When I found out that my blood sugar wasn't in a good place, my doctor wanted me to take meds to lower my A1C.

So, I started on the meds and went to see the nutritionist. The diet they suggested was fairly high in carbohydrates, which was odd to me based on my basic knowledge of blood sugar. I asked about it and was told "this is a proven course of action". Later I found out the carbs were necessary to avoid side effects of the medication. This really didn't make sense to me. Eat stuff that raises blood sugar so I don't get sick from medication used to lower my blood sugar? That's like stomping on a beehive to make sure my epi-pen works.

So, I did some research and figured my blood sugar wouldn't be so high if my body wasn't insulin resistant. Carbohydrates and protein raise blood sugar. Carbs create a fast spike while protein causes a more gradual "curve". Fats have a minimal impact on glucose.

So, I read about healthy fats and higher fat diets. We aren't talking eating a bag of pork rinds every day. There are all sorts of healthy fats. Our body is made to emulsify fat (we have a gallbladder). I quit eating things that require ingredient labels. I hit the gym 3 days a week and mostly focus on large muscle groups that raise my basal metabolic rate.

20 lbs in 10 weeks so far. I have lots of energy. Not drinking energy drinks anymore. Took a minute to get my fiber in a good spot. Now I'm good to go.

 

[pharmseller]

Booze

 

[bolus]

I think the individual's approach should be influenced by their health needs. The one-size-fits-all nutrition plan has resulted in 50% of Americans being some form of insulin resistant. When I found out that my blood sugar wasn't in a good place, my doctor wanted me to take meds to lower my A1C.

So, I started on the meds and went to see the nutritionist. The diet they suggested was fairly high in carbohydrates, which was odd to me based on my basic knowledge of blood sugar. I asked about it and was told "this is a proven course of action". Later I found out the carbs were necessary to avoid side effects of the medication. This really didn't make sense to me. Eat stuff that raises blood sugar so I don't get sick from medication used to lower my blood sugar? That's like stomping on a beehive to make sure my epi-pen works.

So, I did some research and figured my blood sugar wouldn't be so high if my body wasn't insulin resistant. Carbohydrates and protein raise blood sugar. Carbs create a fast spike while protein causes a more gradual "curve". Fats have a minimal impact on glucose.

So, I read about healthy fats and higher fat diets. We aren't talking eating a bag of pork rinds every day. There are all sorts of healthy fats. Our body is made to emulsify fat (we have a gallbladder). I quit eating things that require ingredient labels. I hit the gym 3 days a week and mostly focus on large muscle groups that raise my basal metabolic rate.

20 lbs in 10 weeks so far. I have lots of energy. Not drinking energy drinks anymore. Took a minute to get my fiber in a good spot. Now I'm good to go.

For the curious, not all diabetic meds lower sugars too far and if someone is having to increase carbs to counteract the hypoglycemia caused by a medicine then they are on the wrong medicine.

Metformin does not cause hypoglycemia and it is overall a good med and cheap

the new SGLT2 inhibitors like jardiance, invokana, farxiga are very good. They dont cause hypoglycemia, they are good weight loss meds and they have growing data being able to prevent heart disease and kidney disease. They are expensive though

The GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic, Rybelsus, Trulicity and others also do not cause hypoglcemia, are even better at weight loss, are also good for the heart (except rybelsus) but are expensive and are injections (except rybelsus)

Insulins are great at lowering sugar but cause a ton of weight gain, cause low sugars and are expensive

DDP4- inhibitors like Trajenta and Januvia are expensive and dont come with heart benefits and cause weight gain.

sulfonylureas like glipizide are cheap but come with low sugars, weight gain and no other benefits

Thiazolidinediones like actos are cheap but cause weight gain, are bad for hearts and cause low sugars.

So if you are diabetic and cant fix it with weight loss and diet (the best approach) the newer meds (SGLT2 and GLP1s) are pretty amazing and the only legitimate meds that are good for weight loss. Even someone who isnt diabetic can use them for weight loss except your insurance will probably not pay for it.

If you are on glipizide, actos, or januvia and your doc has not discussed any others then you might be getting care that is 15-20 years out of date.

and side note, screw the pharma guys that come up with these names. throwing 8 random letters together and calling it a name is not a name. Rybelsus? Sounds like a burp after eating taco bell.

 

[No_Regerts]

For the curious, not all diabetic meds lower sugars too far and if someone is having to increase carbs to counteract the hypoglycemia caused by a medicine then they are on the wrong medicine.

Metformin does not cause hypoglycemia and it is overall a good med and cheap

the new SGLT2 inhibitors like jardiance, invokana, farxiga are very good. They dont cause hypoglycemia, they are good weight loss meds and they have growing data being able to prevent heart disease and kidney disease. They are expensive though

The GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic, Rybelsus, Trulicity and others also do not cause hypoglcemia, are even better at weight loss, are also good for the heart (except rybelsus) but are expensive and are injections (except rybelsus)

Insulins are great at lowering sugar but cause a ton of weight gain, cause low sugars and are expensive

DDP4- inhibitors like Trajenta and Januvia are expensive and dont come with heart benefits and cause weight gain.

sulfonylureas like glipizide are cheap but come with low sugars, weight gain and no other benefits

Thiazolidinediones like actos are cheap but cause weight gain, are bad for hearts and cause low sugars.

So if you are diabetic and cant fix it with weight loss and diet (the best approach) the newer meds (SGLT2 and GLP1s) are pretty amazing and the only legitimate meds that are good for weight loss. Even someone who isnt diabetic can use them for weight loss except your insurance will probably not pay for it.

If you are on glipizide, actos, or januvia and your doc has not discussed any others then you might be getting care that is 15-20 years out of date.

and side note, screw the pharma guys that come up with these names. throwing 8 random letters together and calling it a name is not a name. Rybelsus? Sounds like a burp after eating taco bell.

I went the diet/weight loss route. By eating a really low glycemic diet, I've been able to lose weight and my fasting glucose is in the "normal" range. I'm not getting any spikes because I'm not eating foods that would cause that. I'm not sure if I will ever become more sensitive to insulin, but I'm not hungry all of the time, so that's a good sign.