Questions about myself and others carrying at my business

[PlayboyPenguin]

+1 on everything here. The fact is I carry 99% of the time and it is a rare individule who ever knows. I will not tell anyone there, so as far as the personalization of this thread its a moot point.

There's the key. Like I said in the beginning, if I do not know they are carrying I cannot do anything even if I wanted to do it. Unfortunately, some people do not conceal as well as they think they do and other customers might notice and complain. If someone noticed and said something to me I could say "do not worry, they are licensed and sober." If they were drinking I would have no recourse but to ask them to leave.

I thought this to be true in Washington but not Oregon, I sure hope I'm right. Do you happen to have the law handy that prohibits it?

You can carry in a bar, but being in possession of a weapon while intoxicated can be a felony. I had this pointed out to me by one of the legal eagles on another forum. They also pointed out that they clearly express this fact when getting a Multnomah county permit. I was not sure I believed that since my permit is from Multnomah county until I called the sheriff's department and asked and was told point blank that my CHL would be revoked if I was convicted of being in possession of a weapon while intoxicated.

 

[perdurabo]

What do they call the setup where you bolt the shotgun to the bottom of a desk/bar? I've seen this in a few movies lately (in Deathrace and in Training Day)

With all due respect, I strongly recommend you don't get your tactical advice from a movie.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

A little thing I rigged up at my office desk, using a Galco SOB holster:

(shown grabbing with left hand due to camera being in right)...

 

[Weathermaker]

Okay...how a a sign that says, "No concealed weapons unless you're the desingated driver."

 

[Joe Link]

You can carry in a bar, but being in possession of a weapon while intoxicated can be a felony. I had this pointed out to me by one of the legal eagles on another forum. They also pointed out that they clearly express this fact when getting a Multnomah county permit. I was not sure I believed that since my permit is from Multnomah county until I called the sheriff's department and asked and was told point blank that my CHL would be revoked if I was convicted of being in possession of a weapon while intoxicated.

Hmm, after doing some research it appears that carrying while intoxicated isn't against the law in and of itself, but if it causes you to be charged with a misdimeanor that you're found guilty of, that's grounds for revocation.

(2) Notwithstanding ORS 166.291 (1), and subject to review as provided in subsection (5) of this section, a sheriff may deny a concealed handgun license if the sheriff has reasonable grounds to believe that the applicant has been or is reasonably likely to be a danger to self or others, or to the community at large, as a result of the applicant’s mental or psychological state or as demonstrated by the applicant’s past pattern of behavior involving unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence.
(3)(a) Any act or condition that would prevent the issuance of a concealed handgun license is cause for revoking a concealed handgun license.
(4) Any peace officer or corrections officer may seize a concealed handgun license and return it to the issuing sheriff if the license is held by a person who has been arrested or cited for a crime that can or would otherwise disqualify the person from being issued a concealed handgun license. The issuing sheriff shall hold the license for 30 days. If the person is not charged with a crime within the 30 days, the sheriff shall return the license unless the sheriff revokes the license as provided in subsection (3) of this section.

166.291 Issuance of concealed handgun license; application; fees; liability.
(h) Has not been convicted of a misdemeanor or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a misdemeanor within the four years prior to the application;

That's good information to know, as I'm pretty sure if there was a problem the officer at the scene could find a misdimeanor to charge you with.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Okay...how a a sign that says, "No concealed weapons unless you're the desingated driver."

No, I will not have an anti-firearm policy for my customers. Anyone that is licensed to carry a concealed firearm is welcome to do so in my opinion...as long as it stays concealed.

My main concern is when it becomes known that they are carrying. Either to an employee or another patron. Then I am afraid I would have to ask them to leave if it bothered my other patrons, especially if they were drinking. If they were not drinking I could probably reassure my other guests that he was not drinking and was trained and licensed and try to put a positive spin on it. That would be hard to do if people are watching them drinking.

Let's face it, there are not enough people with carry permits that are going to frequent my establishment for me to scare off my client base for their benefit.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

As an aside, about every drunk I've seen has had, quote, "A couple beers". FWIW.

 

[swoop]

A little thing I rigged up at my office desk, using a Galco SOB holster:

(shown grabbing with left hand due to camera being in right)...

Like your style Doc.

 

[NWMoss]

No, I will not have an anti-firearm policy for my customers. Anyone that is licensed to carry a concealed firearm is welcome to do so in my opinion...as long as it stays concealed.

My main concern is when it becomes known that they are carrying. Either to an employee or another patron. Then I am afraid I would have to ask them to leave if it bothered my other patrons, especially if they were drinking. If they were not drinking I could probably reassure my other guests that he was not drinking and was trained and licensed and try to put a positive spin on it. That would be hard to do if people are watching them drinking.

Let's face it, there are not enough people with carry permits that are going to frequent my establishment for me to scare off my client base for their benefit.

If there doin' somethin' that causes it to become known that they have a weapon, I'm sure your well on your merry to kick'in 'em out anyways.

:drunk:

 

[Scott]

Lots of mixed emotions in this thread. If I were to say one thing and if this was my business I would have a sign that said no firearms please. Even though I would not mind people carrying but my worry would be the ramifications if something happened. They don't care about the person they would want the business in a law suit. The liability alone is enough to make me not want to own a business. Playboy it is a tough choice and you have to consider everything and everyone because it will be you they come after if anything goes wrong. Thats why I like WA because it states you cannot carry in a bar period. I think that free's the bar some what in terms of liability. As for yourself I would carry because it is your property and I would not let employee's carry. Leave a couple bat's in the corners somewhere for them. Plus alcohol and guns don't mix most of the time. Good luck and consult with your attorney and ask him and talk with your insurance company as well. I am sure they will let you know what they think. Good luck.

Scott

 

[nathanh]

I thought this to be true in Washington but not Oregon, I sure hope I'm right. Do you happen to have the law handy that prohibits it?

It is not illegal to drink while armed in Washington. I have a beer with dinner while carrying (both open and concealed) on a regular basis.

If an individual has a BAC of .08 or over a police officer may confiscate that person's firearm.

Firearms are not allowed in bars or the Over-21 section of restaurants.

 

[perdurabo]

There's something to be said for maturity. If you're not mature enough to avoid getting sloshed, you should probably reconsider carrying a firearm.

 

[Natty Bumpo]

You should be getting your legal and business advice from those who have the professional qualifications to charge for it.

Apart from that, you approach sounds reasonable from my perspective as a prospective patron.

 

[NWMoss]

With all due respect, I strongly recommend you don't get your tactical advice from a movie.

Annnd the humor was lost...

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Annnd the humor was lost...

That is one of the worst things about text. It is hard to convey emotion...especially sarcasm.

 

[ZeroRing]

That is one of the worst things about text. It is hard to convey emotion...especially sarcasm.

That's what all the nifty smilies are for!

 

[NWMoss]

For more fun times, try e-mails to Germans!!!

Not only is inflection lost, but you have the added *benefit* of a language barrier. :huh:

We have all sorts of fun times with our corporate office!

Especially our corporate email right now... but don't get me started on that :angry:

 

[pease]

its your call on the rules and I would talk with your attorney. I carry and on the way home from work some of my coworkers and i will stop for a beer. I have a couple 2-3 beers in a couple of hours with some food. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. If I'm going to a local bar with friends the gun stays home, and we get a ride or walk. I wish you the best of luck with your new adventure.

 

[Black Elk]

The following sign is going up in my business asap.
I agree with the guy who said if you can't control yourself with a drink or two then you should rethink carrying a firearm.
Not an attack here Penguin, I just found this and since it applies to your thread and my view I thought I would post it.






http://www.chuckkleinauthor.com/workguns.html?view100666

 

[dolooper]

You should be getting your legal and business advice from those who have the professional qualifications to charge for it.

Apart from that, you approach sounds reasonable from my perspective as a prospective patron.

to both thoughts.

I think your approach makes sense from the employer perspective, as well. I am not an attorney, but it seems to me that giving your employees tacit approval to carry opens you up to liability you wouldn't want to assume, from innocent people in the background being injured in a legitimate shoot to employees messing themselves or someone else up with a ND.

If you make no firearms a "rule" for employees (and I don't mean any form of active enforcement), I'd think the standard for establishing your culpability would be higher. I suspect most larger employers make this rule not out of overt anti-2nd amendment sentiment, but for financial self-preservation and at the advice of attorneys or insurers.

You know you'll be responsible with your own weapon and it doesn't matter if your patrons carry, but I don't see a *compelling* reason to assume the risk for those in your employ by virtue of business practice.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. Pay one for advice and make sure that advice is documented.