Questions about myself and others carrying at my business

[PlayboyPenguin]

After a year and some change search, we just found the location for our new business. We will be opening a cafe/lounge. It will be a martini style lounge in the evenings...meaning it will be an establishment that sells alcohol.

I personally do not drink so that will not be an issue, but I am wondering about carrying at work. Should I carry on my person, should I leave it in my desk, etc? I know I will have the rule of "give up the money with no fight" for myself and my employees in the case of an armed robbery, but lately it seems that robbers are inflicting damages on even people that cooperate.

I also have to wonder how I am going to deal with customers carrying. I am sure I will get a lot of people in there that I personally know are carrying. My own opinion is I have no problem with it unless they are drinking. If I know they are carrying and they are drinking I am afraid I would have to ask them to leave. Of course if I do not know, and it is concealed, I have no way of even knowing.

Thoughts?

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[NWMoss]

What do they call the setup where you bolt the shotgun to the bottom of a desk/bar? I've seen this in a few movies lately (in Deathrace and in Training Day)

It sounds like you have a tough decision, and not owning a business myself it would be hard to give advice.

If I was making a similar decision, I would first consider who I have working for me. As much as we think we know people, do we want a gun accessable to the waiter who's unstable?

maybe arming them would puts yourself in a position of liability...

I know you'll make the right choice.

 

[bcp]

What do Oregon state laws say about carrying where alcohol is served? Does it apply to the owner or employee?
What about a firearm nearby and ready but not carried?

Bruce

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

To address a couple questions, you can legally carry in a bar but you cannot be in possession of a firearm while under the influence of alcohol. Most of the personal carry laws do not apply to business owners in their own property.

As for employees being armed, I would definitely not be condoning it nor providing them arms or access to them. If they are carrying concealed and I did not know it I could hardly act on that now could I.

I am more concerned with my own actions and how to deal with customers.

 

[swoop]

I would carry in your place, very well concealed. Out of respect for you and the law, I would not drink. As for yourself, can't make that call,but sure you will make the right one. Good luck with the business.

 

[Black Elk]

I certainly mean no disrespect here; BUT, a little IMHO...

If you "truely" believe that anyone engaged in the act of robbery is very likely to harm 'someone', it is your right and obligation to terminate that possibility.

If you don't allow your employees to carry while at work, why frequent a board that is set up around the heritage of freedom to carry responcibly "where ever" a said responcible person chooses? Aren't you in effect promoting uncle "O's" aggenda?

If you tell me I can't enjoy a beer or two at my leasure; simply because I am at the ready to protect your life, then I am not likely to become a patron of your clearly anti firearms freedom establishment.

Nothing personal - just some things to think about as you move ahead.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

No offense...but anyone that cannot see carrying a firearm and drinking do not mix any more than drinking and driving do, would not be welcome in any establishment I owned.

I certainly mean no disrespect here; BUT, a little IMHO...

If you "truely" believe that anyone engaged in the act of robbery is very likely to harm 'someone', it is your right and obligation to terminate that possibility.

If you don't allow your employees to carry while at work, why frequent a board that is set up around the heritage of freedom to carry responcibly "where ever" a said responcible person chooses? Aren't you in effect promoting uncle "O's" aggenda?

If you tell me I can't enjoy a beer or two at my leasure; simply because I am at the ready to protect your life, then I am not likely to become a patron of your clearly anti firearms freedom establishment.

Nothing personal - just some things to think about as you move ahead.

 

[Black Elk]

I agree with a statement like " no getting drunk and shooting, hunting, what ever ".

As to your comment, it is your job (and that of everyone in your employ) to see that no one "has too many" and drives. How is this any different? If I drive there and may have one or two drinks unless I seem intoxicated; why can I not carry a firearm in the same scenareo? Crime, death, and accident statistics show that more injury is caused by vehicles by far then by firearms.

However since you couldn't even acknowledge the other comments it "seems" as though you did mean offence.
Please do not confuse haveing a drink, with getting intoxicated.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

As to your comment, it is your job (and that of everyone in your employ) to see that no one "has too many" and drives. How is this any different? If I drive there and may have one or two drinks unless I seem intoxicated; why can I not carry a firearm in the same scenareo? Crime, death, and accident statistics show that more injury is caused by vehicles by far then by firearms.

I do not believe in having a few and driving either. That is what designated drivers are for...and public transportation. That is why we give free non-alcoholic drinks to designated drivers.

 

[Joe Link]

If I were you I would definitely carry.

I personally carry concealed everywhere I go, which include places where the owner and/or business probably wouldn't approve. Under Oregon law, the worst they can do if they find out is ask me to leave (which I, of course, would do).

I used to leave my firearm at home when I planned on drinking, but I no longer do so. I've had a couple very serious threats that, thank god, my girlfriend and I were able to escape from (by literally running away). In that situation we even flagged down a police officer and told them what was going on. They questioned our pursuers, drive away, and the people continued running after us. This was over a friend of mine looking toward their table as we left the bar.

I have it thoroughly instilled in my mind that the only time I would ever draw my gun, sober or under the influence, is if my life were in danger. I do agree that alcohol does effect judgment. Some people get wasted and do things they would never do ordinarily, some people don't. I know myself and what type of person I am, so I trust myself. I think it varies from person to person. I'm sure some of you will disagree with me, this is just my personal choice.

 

[cackman]

I certainly mean no disrespect here; BUT, a little IMHO...

If you "truely" believe that anyone engaged in the act of robbery is very likely to harm 'someone', it is your right and obligation to terminate that possibility.

If you don't allow your employees to carry while at work, why frequent a board that is set up around the heritage of freedom to carry responcibly "where ever" a said responcible person chooses? Aren't you in effect promoting uncle "O's" aggenda?

If you tell me I can't enjoy a beer or two at my leasure; simply because I am at the ready to protect your life, then I am not likely to become a patron of your clearly anti firearms freedom establishment.

Nothing personal - just some things to think about as you move ahead.

+1 beat me to it.

While your at it, why not go ahead and put some of them fancy "gun-free zone" plaques while your at it. Then sit back an feel safe with everyone dis-armed

Also, make sure to post the name of your business so I can make absolutley sure to never grace your doorstep with my "un-safe" ways.

Seriously, what kind of response were you looking for here:huh:

Your post smacks of "gun-grabber" influence.:winkkiss:

 

[Joe Link]

Ok guys, tone down the negativity, NWFA isn't the place for it. Feel free to disagree with the idea, but don't attack the person.

 

[JennyC]

If I were you I would definitely carry.

I personally carry concealed everywhere I go, which include places where the owner and/or business probably wouldn't approve. Under Oregon law, the worst they can do if they find out is ask me to leave (which I, of course, would do).

I used to leave my firearm at home when I planned on drinking, but I no longer do so. I've had a couple very serious threats that, thank god, my girlfriend and I were able to escape from (by literally running away). In that situation we even flagged down a police officer and told them what was going on. They questioned our pursuers, drive away, and the people continued running after us. This was over a friend of mine looking toward their table as we left the bar.

I have it thoroughly instilled in my mind that the only time I would ever draw my gun, sober or under the influence, is if my life were in danger. I do agree that alcohol does effect judgment. Some people get wasted and do things they would never do ordinarily, some people don't. I know myself and what type of person I am, so I trust myself. I think it varies from person to person. I'm sure some of you will disagree with me, this is just my personal choice.

I'd also like to add, I have my CHL as well, but don't carry.

We've discussed and trained for a situation where Joey was carrying but not sober, in which case I could use his firearm to protect us. Though, if Joey has more than a few drinks, I've never seen him not lock the gun in the car.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

While your at it, why not go ahead and put some of them fancy "gun-free zone" plaques while your at it. Then sit back an feel safe with everyone dis-armed

There is a huge difference between not wanting someone carrying in my business and not wanting someone drinking while they are carrying. Besides it being grossly negligent, it is illegal and grounds for immediate revocation of you CHL.

 

[ZeroRing]

Bottom line, it's YOUR business, YOU make the rules. Patrons can then decide to patronize your establishment, or not. Seems like "free" choice all around.

 

[Joe Link]

There is a huge difference between not wanting someone carrying in my business and not wanting someone drinking while they are carrying. Besides it being grossly negligent, it is illegal and grounds for immediate revocation of you CHL.

I thought this to be true in Washington but not Oregon, I sure hope I'm right. Do you happen to have the law handy that prohibits it?

 

[Joe Link]

Bottom line, it's YOUR business, YOU make the rules. Patrons can then decide to patronize your establishment, or not. Seems like "free" choice all around.

Exactly. I'm not going to criticize a business owner for choosing one way or another, as nobody is forced to eat or drink in one particular establishment. More choices for all parties involved equals more freedom

 

[ZeroRing]

Exactly. I'm not going to criticize a business owner for choosing one way or another, as nobody is forced to eat or drink in one particular establishment. More choices for all parties involved equals more freedom

Sounds a lot like the rules at a certain firearms forum I spend WAY to much time on.

And for what it's worth, I think Mr. Penguin's establishment would be well worth a visit if I were in the neighborhood.

 

[Joe Link]

Same here, I plan on checking it out

 

[Black Elk]

Exactly. I'm not going to criticize a business owner for choosing one way or another, as nobody is forced to eat or drink in one particular establishment. More choices for all parties involved equals more freedom

...
And for what it's worth, I think Mr. Penguin's establishment would be well worth a visit if I were in the neighborhood.

Same here, I plan on checking it out

+1 on everything here. The fact is I carry 99% of the time and it is a rare individule who ever knows. I will not tell anyone there, so as far as the personalization of this thread its a moot point.

I would be more then happy to check out the place, and if "Good" beer is served I will taste it. I never have more then two, and I never get intoxicated, it is unnecessary and there is too much at stake.

But, yes if an owner somehow discovers I am armed and asks me to leave, I will leave with out incident. Other then a few calm words about freedom as I go. I will be armed.