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My girlfriend and I recently started out on a trip from Seattle to the greater Portland area, leaving around 2am. After stopping at a convenience store on a well lit street we got back on the road and I momentarily failed to turn my lights back on and was briefly stopped by a Seattle PD officer who reminded me of this and performed what I assume was a warrant check before leaving us to our road trip without writing anything up. I mention this encounter only because my girlfriend (a musician with extremely good hearing) overheard on the officer's radio that they were looking for a car of the same make and color as my own with a bunch of 9mm guns and/or ammunition. She did not mention this to me at the time or I might have driven the 5 minutes back home and switched us to her car.
An hour or so into our trip we were headed down the freeway at the speed of traffic and were stopped by a Highway Patrol officer who accused us of being at last 20 mph over the speed limit (which I am positive was not the case; he used pacing and never fully matched speed, leading me to think this was a faulty rough estimate or just a verbal excuse for stopping us to see if we were the car they were looking for).
Here's where it gets interesting: After glancing at license and registration he asked "you don't have any knives or guns in the car do you?" We were somewhat unnerved at the question but I replied that we did have guns and my girlfriend replied that we had concealed carry permits. He seemed slightly surprised and asked where the guns were and we indicated my pocket and her purse. At this point he stated (politely, I believe) "I'd like to be the only one at this traffic stop with a weapon" and asked us to hand him our guns, butts first. I unloaded my 1911 and handed it to him and my girlfriend (who had been nearly asleep before this stop) simply handed over her double-action revolver still loaded. He didn't seem to prefer either state and didn't appear to check the guns closely himself. He also asked for and briefly examined our CPLs. He made some friendly small talk about having the same revolver as my girlfriend and very briefly disappeared to his car to perform what I assume was another warrant check. I didn't think he had time to note or lookup the guns' serial numbers, although I have no real knowledge of how long such things take. He returned, verbally reminded us to watch our speed and handed back the firearms, butts first and drove off.
I was disturbed by the questioning about and confiscation (however temporary) of our firearms on several levels but didn't think the side of the road and the middle of the night was the best place to inquire about such things. It might be worth noting that he looked like a 20-something officer, while the Seattle PD officer was in his 40's. Is this perhaps a newer thing being taught in some police academies now?
My primary objections to this process were:
Safety: The officer asked tired people in the middle of the night to handle firearms in an enclosed space where muzzle control was almost impossible. The muzzle of my girlfriend's loaded revolver passed over her feet, my knees, her thighs and (when he later returned it), the officers own abdomen. My own gun (which I unloaded but which he couldn't have been sure of as I neglected to lock the slide open and he did not rack it in my presence) also passed over his abdomen and my girlfriend's thighs as it was returned to me. The potential for a lethal accidental discharge was astounding.
Logic: If we were really the criminal masterminds with a load of 9mm whatever, wouldn't we have just answered "no?" Or shot him as he approached? Or simply turned over one or some weapons while retaining others? He was remarkably vulnerable at the moment he was cradling our 2 handguns and a flashlight in his hands. It might even be worth noting that I did fail to disclose my pocket knife (I didn't lie but I imagine it's a half truth to mention the guns and not the knife) and he never become aware of this. I had my reasons: the knife's safety mechanism is broken and the thought of passing it across my girlfriend's lap for inspection was untenable.
Legality: Does an officer purporting to be on a routine traffic stop have any right to ask us if we are carrying firearms? Are we legally required to answer or be truthful if it has nothing to do with the matter under discussion (traffic safety)? Does an officer have the right to ask us to surrender our concealed firearms for no cause other than that he would feel better being the only armed person in the immediate vicinity? What, if anything, were his legitimate recourses if we had refused to show or hand over the weapons?
Can anyone please shed some light on this? My girlfriend and I were quite disturbed by this encounter and are not sure what was or wasn't appropriate about this traffic stop. To be clear, he was friendly, polite and certainly didnt appear to be just trying to make his quota as he didn't write anything up. Im just left with a bad feeling if any officer can challenge a CPL holder to disclose and surrender firearms at will.
An hour or so into our trip we were headed down the freeway at the speed of traffic and were stopped by a Highway Patrol officer who accused us of being at last 20 mph over the speed limit (which I am positive was not the case; he used pacing and never fully matched speed, leading me to think this was a faulty rough estimate or just a verbal excuse for stopping us to see if we were the car they were looking for).
Here's where it gets interesting: After glancing at license and registration he asked "you don't have any knives or guns in the car do you?" We were somewhat unnerved at the question but I replied that we did have guns and my girlfriend replied that we had concealed carry permits. He seemed slightly surprised and asked where the guns were and we indicated my pocket and her purse. At this point he stated (politely, I believe) "I'd like to be the only one at this traffic stop with a weapon" and asked us to hand him our guns, butts first. I unloaded my 1911 and handed it to him and my girlfriend (who had been nearly asleep before this stop) simply handed over her double-action revolver still loaded. He didn't seem to prefer either state and didn't appear to check the guns closely himself. He also asked for and briefly examined our CPLs. He made some friendly small talk about having the same revolver as my girlfriend and very briefly disappeared to his car to perform what I assume was another warrant check. I didn't think he had time to note or lookup the guns' serial numbers, although I have no real knowledge of how long such things take. He returned, verbally reminded us to watch our speed and handed back the firearms, butts first and drove off.
I was disturbed by the questioning about and confiscation (however temporary) of our firearms on several levels but didn't think the side of the road and the middle of the night was the best place to inquire about such things. It might be worth noting that he looked like a 20-something officer, while the Seattle PD officer was in his 40's. Is this perhaps a newer thing being taught in some police academies now?
My primary objections to this process were:
Safety: The officer asked tired people in the middle of the night to handle firearms in an enclosed space where muzzle control was almost impossible. The muzzle of my girlfriend's loaded revolver passed over her feet, my knees, her thighs and (when he later returned it), the officers own abdomen. My own gun (which I unloaded but which he couldn't have been sure of as I neglected to lock the slide open and he did not rack it in my presence) also passed over his abdomen and my girlfriend's thighs as it was returned to me. The potential for a lethal accidental discharge was astounding.
Logic: If we were really the criminal masterminds with a load of 9mm whatever, wouldn't we have just answered "no?" Or shot him as he approached? Or simply turned over one or some weapons while retaining others? He was remarkably vulnerable at the moment he was cradling our 2 handguns and a flashlight in his hands. It might even be worth noting that I did fail to disclose my pocket knife (I didn't lie but I imagine it's a half truth to mention the guns and not the knife) and he never become aware of this. I had my reasons: the knife's safety mechanism is broken and the thought of passing it across my girlfriend's lap for inspection was untenable.
Legality: Does an officer purporting to be on a routine traffic stop have any right to ask us if we are carrying firearms? Are we legally required to answer or be truthful if it has nothing to do with the matter under discussion (traffic safety)? Does an officer have the right to ask us to surrender our concealed firearms for no cause other than that he would feel better being the only armed person in the immediate vicinity? What, if anything, were his legitimate recourses if we had refused to show or hand over the weapons?
Can anyone please shed some light on this? My girlfriend and I were quite disturbed by this encounter and are not sure what was or wasn't appropriate about this traffic stop. To be clear, he was friendly, polite and certainly didnt appear to be just trying to make his quota as he didn't write anything up. Im just left with a bad feeling if any officer can challenge a CPL holder to disclose and surrender firearms at will.