Questioning and temporary confiscation of CCWs during routine traffic stops?

[RevJimII]

Just imagine MY traffic stops, I open carry only with no CHL.

Rev. Jim II

 

[rsmccsman]

If I was doing a car stop and someone told me they had a gun, I would ask them to leave their hands where I could see them. Like on the steering wheel. Having them handle the gun was stupid tactically and unsafe. You followed his instructions and answered truthfully but your concerns about the handling of this are legit.

 

[beararms5000]

I disagree with your statements of "Tired" and "practicing safe muzzle control" only for the simple fact that you should always have the mental control over your weapon. Dead of night or not. This is sort of beside the point, and sounds like an excuse of why you were bothered by the officer's request.

Maybe I should clarify: I was the driver and was in my opinion awake and alert and unloaded my gun and attempted to practice careful muzzle control, though I am not used to handling a gun in such an enclosed space and did neglect to lock the slide open (which I always do before handing my gun off at the range, so perhaps some element of being tired was present for me).

My girlfriend on the other hand was nearly asleep. In my opinion, she didn't practice nearly as safe muzzle control or general handling as she does when more alert and handed the gun to the officer fully loaded without really thinking about it. I was particularly alarmed and worried when the officer handed it back to her, at which point she was still a bit disoriented, the gun was loaded, her hand was on the handle and the muzzle was over the officer's abdomen. Doesn't that sound a lot less safe for all involved than just leaving her gun in her purse and if he's really nervous, hands on the wheel/dash? Under normal circumstances, she never would have touched her gun while in that state.

 

[CarlMc]

I was debating whether to resurrect this thread or start a new one, but something came up the other day that got me thinking, and about this thread specifically. I got pulled over on the highway for speeding the other day. I always present my CPL with my drivers license and all that. The officer was a super fellow, and was perfect is confirming that I was carrying in where I had it, but not to touch it. When he came back with the ticket, he engaged in some casual conversation about my carry piece, and mentioned that when he pulled me up, many of the firearms I own came up, specifically listing off some of the makes, which made him curious about what I carried, I guess.

So, my question for those who have these answers, what all does he have access to and how does that information come about being on his database? I'm not comfortable with that information being easily accessible, which touches on the evil registration concept, so I'm curious as to how all this came about, and how long this has been the case.

 

[deen_ad]

< Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

Any pistol bought in WA through an FFL is registered with the state, long guns are not (yet) if bought from an FFL. Private sales are not yet registered unless 594 accidentally passes and 591 doesn't.



Deen
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"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

 

[mjbskwim]

< Why they don't have school shootings in Israel.
Notice the long gun slung over the teachers shoulder?

Any pistol bought in WA through an FFL is registered with the state, long guns are not (yet) if bought from an FFL. Private sales are not yet registered unless 594 accidentally passes and 591 doesn't.



Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Golden Eagle member
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

IT IS NOT REGISTERED it IS on record if you have used your carry permit when buying the hand gun.
The guy who shot up the coffee shop in N Seattle was the case where this came to light for me. The data base knew what pistols he had purchased with his CPL,the 45 he used ,what they found him with,had come up on the search.

BUT it is NOT registration.You do not get a tittle for the gun or need to transfer 'tittle' to the next person when selling said firearm.

So, my question for those who have these answers, what all does he have access to and how does that information come about being on his database? I'm not comfortable with that information being easily accessible, which touches on the evil registration concept, so I'm curious as to how all this came about, and how long this has been the case.

So I would guess if you don't want the info to be on the grid,don't use your permit and wait the 5 business days

As far as surrendering your weapon,apparently there was a court case on this and the person lost,with the state being found that they can,in fact ask for your weapon.
It's in another thread from last year on this subject.

 

[Don H]

One thing I wonder about is how to handle this situation when the officer asks you to hand him the handgun. Quite frankly, I don't like the idea of having contact with the gun in this situation -- say another officer arrives on the scene and I'm pulling out the gun to comply with the original order and the new officer doesn't know this and thinks I'm drawing -- would it be wrong to ask them to remove the gun from the holster themselves or would that cause more harm than good?

 

[PiratePast40]

IT IS NOT REGISTERED it IS on record if you have used your carry permit when buying the hand gun.
The guy who shot up the coffee shop in N Seattle was the case where this came to light for me. The data base knew what pistols he had purchased with his CPL,the 45 he used ,what they found him with,had come up on the search.

BUT it is NOT registration.You do not get a tittle for the gun or need to transfer 'tittle' to the next person when selling said firearm.
......

With all due respect, I think we need to be careful about slipping into some strict definition of registration. I filled out warranty and registration information for my laptop, washer and dryer, and refrigerator. My dog is registered. But none of them require a title, transfer of title, or annual taxes. I believe that the antis would love to latch onto the definition that you alluded to, and it's not a path we would wish to explore. The existence of an easily accessible database is the problem. Someone could easily use your example to say that gun owners are paranoid and that no such registration exists, when in fact, the database does exist, and that is the problem.

 

[CarlMc]

How long has this "recording of sale" been going on? Does it come in the LEO computer under driver's license? I was under the impression that the CPL, being a paper system, wasn't "in the system" electronically. If that's no longer the case, how long has that been going on?

 

[mjbskwim]

How long has this "recording of sale" been going on? Does it come in the LEO computer under driver's license? I was under the impression that the CPL, being a paper system, wasn't "in the system" electronically. If that's no longer the case, how long has that been going on?

Well again the shooter in Seattle went from one end of the city to the other and in that time,say 10-15 miutes? they brought up the record of the guns he had bought using his cpl. I would guess a paper trail would take days to go through.
I'm considering waiting the 5 days from now on,or just buying private.
Pirate I ain't gunna argue about the record being wrong that's for sure.But we will never get it destroyed.

 

[PiratePast40]

...Pirate I ain't gunna argue about the record being wrong that's for sure.But we will never get it destroyed.

You're absolutely right. But what we can do is stay vigilant and stay involved in the political process. I'm thinking that this is just the tip of the iceberg. From what I understand, there are some states with much stricter laws. I've even heard of a carry permit being tied to a specific gun, and that you need a separate permit or authorization for each gun you intend to carry. I cringe at the thought of a simple traffic stop for a taillight being turned into an arrest for carrying the wrong gun.

Another thought is the existence of the database to begin with, and the vulnerability of databases to hacking. If Snowden can steal the super important data that he did, how safe are the rest of any government documents?

 

[mjbskwim]

There are a few states that connect your cpl with 1 weapon.Same as having too large a capacity mag in some states,you need to follow your local laws.
As far as the hacking thing,the only way to overcome that is by not having a cpl or not ever buying from a ffl.
Oregon you would not be able to shop a gun shows either.

 

[wichaka]

In wa., it doesn't come up on a driver check. If it would, I can see a problem with over zealous idiots goings too far with it.

 

[CarlMc]

In wa., it doesn't come up on a driver check. If it would, I can see a problem with over zealous idiots goings too far with it.

So what extra effort does the LEO have to go through to access this information from his car behind someone on the side of the road? Is it something that's routinely pulled up during a traffic stop?

 

[YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER]

Interesting... I don't know the legality of an officer asking you to surrender your weapon. I would guess he's within his jurisdiction to do so. During my CPL class I was informed that you do not have to disclose possession of a firearm to an officer during a stop. Consequently if you wouldn't have answered his question (and in essence not declared having a firearm) I would see no reason why you would have any liability for not surrendering. I'm not versed in law so I could be 100&#37; wrong here.

I however would likely do everything in my power to make the officer's experience as easy as possible. I've always thought that making their job as easy as possible is the best way to avoid a ticket.

I'd really like to see other people's takes on this.

I was involved in a minor traffic accident, that was not my fault. I chose to exercise my right not to mention I was carrying. I have a CHL. Just before leaving, the officer wanted to do a sobriety test. It was then that I told him I was packing, because I figured he might see the firearm during the test, and shoot me.
When I got to court to fight the ticket, The judge threw the book at me.
I owned a litigious business for decades, and have a lot of courtroom experience. I should not have lost this ticket case!
A few years later, I was target shooting with a retired LEO, and told him about this incident. He told me the reason I lost the case is because that while I have the legal right not to disclose that I am packing - the Portland PD have there own rules. They expect to be informed! And the judge backed them up.

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

Emphasis below is mine

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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Defender of Freedom Award
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"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

So, my question for those who have these answers, what all does he have access to and how does that information come about being on his database? I'm not comfortable with that information being easily accessible, which touches on the evil registration concept, so I'm curious as to how all this came about, and how long this has been the case.

When you purchase a pistol in WA the state is notified by one of the forms, it's entered into a database, so we do have defacto registration of handguns now.
Some people think the data is destroyed after a short time, however we know it isn't.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"