Possible solution to bumpfire and binary triggers "problem"

[Koda]

How many thousands of machine guns are out in public hands this second? When was the last time a legally owned MG was used in a crime?

one could argue the Vegas shooter used a legally owned machine gun in a crime...

 

[wired]

one could argue the Vegas shooter used a legally owned machine gun in a crime...

One could argue a lot of things and still be wrong. "Machine Gun" is a defined term in the US Code .

 

[nwslopoke]

one could argue the Vegas shooter used a legally owned machine gun in a crime...

That's not a valid argument. There are several actual machine guns just across the frwy from the strip. The Vegas shooter had the means to legally or illegally obtain machine guns. You believe what you believe.

 

[Koda]

One could argue a lot of things and still be wrong. "Machine Gun" is a defined term in the US Code .

is this the code your referring to:
26 U.S. Code § 5845

26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

(b) Machinegun The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person

 

[wired]

That's not a valid argument. There are several actual machine guns just across the frwy from the strip. The Vegas shooter had the means to legally or illegally obtain machine guns. You believe what you believe.

is this the code your referring to:
26 U.S. Code § 5845

26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

Yes, and by that definition the bumpstock is not a machine gun under current US law nor does it turn the weapon into a machine gun. It only makes it so the shooter can press the trigger faster. Ive got one. It works sort of but I certainly wouldnt trust my life to one.

Putting aside the fact the guy was a homicidal maniac you kind of have to wonder what the Vegas shooter was thinking. Obviously he had the means to buy some transferrables or he could have just bought the parts to convert any of his rifles to Full Auto for about $100 since he was going to break the law anyway . Why rely on something that barely works like a bump stock? And 23 guns? Really? I could see maybe two in case his primary weapon seriously malfunctioned.

 

[Koda]

bear with me while I play devils advocacy guys, but if you want to find a way to repeal, loosen or somehow open up the machine gun prohibition (you might as well just vote to repeal it), before you do realize that if true machine guns were readily available there will be criminals that will use them, including and especially first time offenders... like the Vegas shooter. You have to figure that part out first because to the anti's it doesn't matter at all the technical definition of a bump stock or how it works, simulating full auto is the same thing to them.

 

[Koda]

Yes, and by that definition the bumpstock is not a machine gun under current US law nor does it turn the weapon into a machine gun. It only makes it so the shooter can press the trigger faster. Ive got one. It works sort of but I certainly wouldnt trust my life to one.

I actually agree with this definition...

Putting aside the fact the guy was a homicidal maniac you kind of have to wonder what the Vegas shooter was thinking. Obviously he had the means to buy some transferrables or he could have just bought the parts to convert any of his rifles to Full Auto for about $100 since he was going to break the law anyway . Why rely on something that barely works like a bump stock? And 23 guns? Really? I could see maybe two in case his primary weapon seriously malfunctioned.

just my opinion but I think the Vegas shooter was no different than the vast majority of people including many gun owners who actually dont know much about gun or getting a full auto. Myself included, I dont know how to modify or apply for a stamp or whatever to get one, and as far as I know the 1986 bill pretty much sealed any chance at buying one already grandfathered in. My guess is the Vegas shooter just simply picked the easiest path, get a bump stock. And for what his plan was, "pray and spray", I don't think it would have mattered if he did have a full auto or even semi auto he was just dumping ammo into a large crowd.

 

[wired]

True machine guns ARE readily available. I'm not talking about the 400,000 legal machine guns in the registry. If you are a criminal bent on killing a bunch of people why do you care whats legal? In just a few minutes I can order everything I might need to convert an AK or AR-15 into an illegal machinegun. There are some guns that I wouldnt need to order anything to convert into an illegal machine gun. A few minutes with a welder and a file. The parts are out there and the drilling fixtures, plans etc are as well. The ATF seizes thousands of illegal machine guns a year and by many estimates there are several times as many illegal machine guns out there than there are legal machine guns. The fact is that those are actual machine guns and you don't hear about many if any crimes being committed by criminals using them.
I dont believe for a second that the GOPA is going to get amended to allow for new full automatics into the registry . I do think the anti's are stupid enough to push through a provision that classifies bump stocks as machine guns with inclusion into the NFA without coming to terms with what that actually means in practice under the NFA.

 

[wired]

Seemed like a slam dunk at the time because no one really cared about bumpstock feelings and even Republican lawmakers were calling for their ban . I think what might have happened is that right after the Vegas incident some members of Congress may have asked the ATF lawyers what they needed to do to get bumpstocks added to the NFA as machine guns and the ATF told them that to do so they would have to open the registry and let the attached guns in as machine guns. Havent heard anything more in some time.

 

[nwslopoke]

We can clearly see the bump stock has zero to do with any ban. This situation is 100% about banning semi auto rifle (pistols, shotguns will follow). I just started a thread on HR38. Politicians will throw everything at the wall to see what sticks and strip away every right (protection from government) and install powers the US government was never designed to have.

I challenge anyone on this website over 30yo to tell me the government doesn't have more overreaching power now than in 1987. They don't need warrents, they seize property before a trail, ect. So from my pov, there is no Rep or Dem Congress, there's just congress. It's a one party power grab. We aren't getting a complete story from Vegas. No conspiracy just horrible incomplete reporting. Not how many people were shot. How many people were crushed or how many died from lack of timely medical attention. The narrative is over 500 people shot with a bump stock rifle.

 

[wired]

We can clearly see the bump stock has zero to do with any ban.

Unless they were to specifically ban bumpstocks which is still a possibility. There is no stomach to ban anything else at this point and Democrats like to bundle.

 

[best defense]

I came up with a plan to remedy the bumpfire and binary trigger problem. I propose that Congress and the ATF declare the guns they are installed in machine guns and ban new production of the stocks and trigger parts. Since the ones out there were purchased legally the guns should be allowed into the NFA registry as registered receiver machine guns since that is what they clearly are. Tax free of course.

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Sure, give the opposition all the ammo and ideas you can. I know you mean well, but we don't need to provide anti-gunners with any more ideas for legislation than they already have.

 

[wired]

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Sure, give the opposition all the ammo and ideas you can. I know you mean well, but we don't need to provide anti-gunners with any more ideas for legislation than they already have.

Again. Look at the overall implications of what that would do to the firearms in question. Registering binary trigger containing receivers as NFA regulated machine guns would be the first entry into the registry in decades. Even making bumpstocks machine guns in and of themselves would make the guns they are attached into machine guns . There is a reason the legislation didnt go anywhere after the Vegas incident. I have no doubt a few congress staffers contacted the NFA branch and found out the implications of making binaries and bumpstocks into machine guns and the whole thing was quietly dropped.