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Possible I-594 Loop Hole!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Contract_Pilot, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. Contract_Pilot

    Contract_Pilot Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Look at page 8 (1) of the bill.

    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/FinalText_483.pdf

    It says,

    All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part in this state including without limitation a sale or transfer where either the purchaser or seller or transferee or transferor is in Washington, shall be subject to background checks unless specifically exempted by state or federal law.

    Now look at 27 C.F.R. 478.102(d)

    Under federal law, persons who have been issued state permits to purchase or possess firearms are exempt from background checks if those permits were issued:

    1) Within the previous five years in the state in which the transfer is to take place; and

    2) After an authorized government official has conducted a background investigation, including a search of the NICS database, to verify that possession of a firearm would not be unlawful.

    Who is NICS Exempt look at the ATF Web Site. https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/permanent-brady-permit-chart

    Washington: Concealed pistol license issued on or after July 22, 2011 qualify.

    Not sure who will be the first to test it as a defense! But the law says!

    "unless specifically exempted by state or federal law."
     
  2. cmica

    cmica puy Active Member

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    read Section 3 (4)(f)
    "or while participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance"



    Group (noun) means 1. two or more figures forming a complete unit in a composition. 2.a number of individuals assembled together.
     
  3. gcban

    gcban Tukwila, WA Active Member

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    Contract Pilot, close but not quite. Even though WA permits issued after that 2011 date meet the federal NICS exemption status, it was not adopted by the WA State legislature so no cigar just yet for us here in WA. I have an AZ permit that is NICS exempt and it makes purchases so much easier. Below is the link to the post I did on this subject awhile back. Read it and prepare to be pissed off why we don't have the exemption yet. Politics as usual. Be safe!

    http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/are-new-wa-ccw-permits-now-nics-exempt-or.71026/

    Here is a link to the final outcome of why we don’t have the NICS exemption yet in WA State. Be sure to watch the YouTube video link close to the end with Adam Kline saying why he killed the bill. Votes matter, and here's a prime example of why. As gun owners MANY failed to show up and just mail a simple ballot in by mail to stop this miserable thing.

    http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/wa-nra-supported-house-bill-to-be-heard-tomorrow.78961/
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  4. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    gcban, doesn't 594 inadvertently explicitly adopt the CPL exemption with this new clause? it wasn't there before, 594 adds it.
     
  5. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    The oversight here is assuming that Federal Law trumps State law, and it does not. The state law can be stricter than the Federal (preemption) and thanks to I-591 not passing, State law is still more strict than federal.
     
  6. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    594 explicitly adds a clause accepting federal exemptions. that didn't exist before.
     
  7. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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  8. gcban

    gcban Tukwila, WA Active Member

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    Nope, not unless it is adopted by our legislature. State law controls on this one and right now it's not on the books as law. I-594 is so horribly written and worded I think it will be challenged and either amended or maybe even struck down on constitutional grounds.
     
  9. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Not to be a buzzkill, but the "Affordable" Care Act is unconstitutional, but managed to be up held. :eek:
     
    Redcap likes this.
  10. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    There is another small loophole in 594. They exempt all FFL holders - including ammo manufacturers, which is the cheapest and easiest FFL to obtain. I believe it's $30 for a five year license?
     
  11. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    if you get an ammo manufacturing FFL, you need to register under ITAR, even if you don't export. state department requirement, not ATF. yearly fee is $2250.
     
  12. Scarint

    Scarint Tri-Cities Member

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    It was my understanding that the higher court always prevails. County law trumps city law. State law trumps county law. Federal law trumps state law. [My right to own a firearm trumps all] In addition, State Constitution trumps RCW's (I've verified this latter point with a few lawyers I know).

    You're saying this is incorrect?
     
    Who The F R U likes this.
  13. Bazooka Joe

    Bazooka Joe Lower Yakima Valley Well-Known Member

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    QLMj1Em.png
     
  14. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    RW-Ore and Stomper like this.
  15. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Holding the type 06 FFL doesn't require you to actually manufacture ammo, and still exempts you from 594. I don't see how you could fall afoul of ITAR if you didn't have an actual ammo factory, just the FFL paperwork. I mean, manufacturing all that lovely ammo will be fun, but it's going to take me a decade or two to get around to it.

    Also, ITAR specifically excludes sporting shotgun ammo. So you could just specialize in that as well. "8Ball's Sporting Shotgun Ammo" (opening 2025) sounds good to me!
     
  16. usagi

    usagi Redmond Well-Known Member

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    from the firearms attorneys I have talked to, it doesn't matter if you manufacture ammo or not. you are still required to register under ITAR.

    also, the ATF looks dimly on people holding FFLs without actually doing commerce. it even says on the FFL license that it is a business license. it is not intended for personal use, and it must be a primary source of income. if they think you're using it just to get around laws or using it for personal collecting, they'll revoke it.

    the only license that is OK for personal use is C&R.
     
  17. Contract_Pilot

    Contract_Pilot Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Wow, what liberals think...

    All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part

    They are saying "part" is just that all parts! No definition i could find for part in the bill.

    Was a tough day keeping my moth shut being out numbered all I could do was shake my head!
     
  18. Page.k

    Page.k Seattle Active Member

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    Here are a few of my ideas on 594. I maybe wrong but this is the way I see it.

    Possible I-594 Loop Hole for same day sale!

    Code Rev/AI:eab 9-10 I-2745.1/13
    Sec. 4.
    Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of:
    (1) The results of all required background checks are known and the purchaser or transferee is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal or state law; or
    (2) Ten business days have elapsed from the date the licensed dealer requested the background check. However, for sales and transfers of pistols if the purchaser or transferee does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days.

    then look at the ATF site https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/permanent-brady-permit-chart

    Permanent Brady Permit Chart

    Prepared by: ATF Office of Enforcement Programs and Services.

    Last updated: June 10, 2014

    Note: Notwithstanding the dates set forth below, permits qualify as alternatives to the background check requirements of the Brady law for no more than 5 years from the date of issuance. The permit must be valid under State law in order to qualify as a Brady alternative.
    State / Territory Qualifying Permits
    Washington Concealed pistol license issued on or after July 22, 2011 qualify.



    Under 594 Police Departments are "people" by falling under "other legal entity" and if the officer has the service weapon after duty is complete 594 is in afftect.
    :eek:
    Code Rev/AI:eab 5 I-2745.1/13
    (((15))) (17) "Person" means any individual, corporation, company,
    association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint
    stock company, or other legal entity.

    http://www.ssa.gov/section218training/advanced_course_9.htm
    http://www.irs.gov/Government-Entit...Governments/Is-My-Entity-a-Government-Entity?
    A lawful or legally standing association, corporation, partnership, proprietorship, trust, or individual. Has legal capacity to (1) enter into agreements or contracts, (2) assume obligations, (3) incur and pay debts, (4) sue and be sued in its own right, and (5) to be accountable for illegal activities.
    http://thelawdictionary.org/legal-entity/

    By the wording of 594 Tribal entities are no longer "free nations" by falling under "other legal entity" Or guns can be freely trade on said land if the laws of the land do not effect said transfers.
    :D
    (((15))) (17) "Person" means any individual, corporation, company,
    association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint
    stock company, or other legal entity.

    http://www.ssa.gov/section218training/advanced_course_9.htm
    http://www.irs.gov/Government-Entit...Governments/Is-My-Entity-a-Government-Entity?
    A lawful or legally standing association, corporation, partnership, proprietorship, trust, or individual. Has legal capacity to (1) enter into agreements or contracts, (2) assume obligations, (3) incur and pay debts, (4) sue and be sued in its own right, and (5) to be accountable for illegal activities.
    http://www.bia.gov/FAQs/
    1830's, U. S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall articulated the fundamental principle that has guided the evolution of federal Indian law to the present: That tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government.
    The federal Indian trust responsibility is a legal obligation under which the United States “has charged itself with moral obligations of the highest responsibility and trust” toward Indian tribes (Seminole Nation v. United States, 1942). This obligation was first discussed by Chief Justice John Marshall in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia (1831). Over the years, the trust doctrine has been at the center of numerous other Supreme Court cases, thus making it one of the most important principles in federal Indian law.
    The federal Indian trust responsibility is also a legally enforceable fiduciary obligation on the part of the United States to protect tribal treaty rights, lands, assets, and resources, as well as a duty to carry out the mandates of federal law with respect to American Indian and Alaska Native tribes and villages. In several cases discussing the trust responsibility, the Supreme Court has used language suggesting that it entails legal duties, moral obligations, and the fulfillment of understandings and expectations that have arisen over the entire course of the relationship between the United States and the federally recognized tribes.
    Some reservations are the remnants of a tribe’s original land base. Others were created by the federal government for the resettling of Indian people forcibly relocated from their homelands. Not every federally recognized tribe has a reservation. Federal Indian reservations are generally exempt from state jurisdiction, including taxation, except when Congress specifically authorizes such jurisdiction.
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.93.020
    (7) "Agency with primary territorial jurisdiction" means a city or town police agency which has responsibility for police activity within its boundaries; or a county police or sheriff's department which has responsibility with regard to police activity in the unincorporated areas within the county boundaries; or a statutorily authorized port district police agency or four-year state college or university police agency which has responsibility for police activity within the statutorily authorized enforcement boundaries of the port district, state college, or university.
    (8) "Primary commissioning agency" means (a) the employing agency in the case of a general authority Washington peace officer, a limited authority Washington peace officer, an Indian tribal peace officer, or a federal peace officer, and (b) the commissioning agency in the case of a specially commissioned Washington peace officer (i) who is performing functions within the course and scope of the special commission and (ii) who is not also a general authority Washington peace officer, a limited authority Washington peace officer, an Indian tribal peace officer, or a federal peace officer.

    https://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/08/081406-openletter-nfa-transfers-to-tribal-police.html
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that tax exempt transfers of National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms to tribal police departments may be approved if the tribal police meet certain requirements.
    The NFA generally imposes a tax on the transfer of an NFA firearm. However it exempts the following governmental entities from payment: the United States or any department, independent establishment, or agency thereof, and any State, possession of the United States, any political subdivision thereof, or any official police organization of such a government entity engaged in criminal investigations.
    The Gun Control Act (GCA) generally prohibits the interstate shipment of firearms to unlicensed persons, but contains an exception for shipments to the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.
    The GCA also prohibits the transfer or possession of ‘post May 18, 1986’ machineguns, except with respect to a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.
    Native American tribes and their police departments are not part of, or agencies of, the United States government, or of a State government or a political subdivision of a State. Therefore, tribal police departments generally do not qualify for the exemption from payment of the transfer tax for NFA firearms, are not eligible to receive firearms interstate, and can not possess a ‘post-1986’ machinegun.
    ATF, however, is aware that some tribal police departments participate with the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), Department of the Interior, in a certification program to deputize the tribal officers as BIA officers. Once deputized (and while the deputization remains in effect), the tribal officers are considered Federal law enforcement officers for purposes of the NFA and GCA. Accordingly, when deputized, the department qualifies for the tax exempt transfer, interstate transfer, and machinegun exceptions discussed above.
    A tribal police department must take several steps for the BIA to deputize its officers. The tribal police department must have signed a memorandum of understanding with the BIA and each individual officer must meet certain minimum standards of training. Once approved, each officer is issued a Special Law Enforcement Commission by BIA.


    The transfer of arms between departments is no longer allowed.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 5 I-2745.1/13
    (((15))) (17) "Person" means any individual, corporation, company,
    association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint
    stock company, or other legal entity.
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.93.020
    (10) "Mutual law enforcement assistance" includes, but is not limited to, one or more law enforcement agencies aiding or assisting one or more other such agencies through loans or exchanges of personnel or of material resources, for law enforcement purposes.
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.93.020
    (7) "Agency with primary territorial jurisdiction" means a city or town police agency which has responsibility for police activity within its boundaries; or a county police or sheriff's department which has responsibility with regard to police activity in the unincorporated areas within the county boundaries; or a statutorily authorized port district police agency or four-year state college or university police agency which has responsibility for police activity within the statutorily authorized enforcement boundaries of the port district, state college, or university.
    (8) "Primary commissioning agency" means (a) the employing agency in the case of a general authority Washington peace officer, a limited authority Washington peace officer, an Indian tribal peace officer, or a federal peace officer, and (b) the commissioning agency in the case of a specially commissioned Washington peace officer (i) who is performing functions within the course and scope of the special commission and (ii) who is not also a general authority Washington peace officer, a limited authority Washington peace officer, an Indian tribal peace officer, or a federal peace officer.
    http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
    Pages 92-93 of 243
    § 479.104 Registration of fire-arms by certain governmental entities. Any State, any political subdivision thereof, or any official police organization of such a government entity engaged in criminal investigations, which acquires for official use a firearm not registered to it, such as by abandonment or by forfeiture, will register such firearm with the Director by filing Form 10 (Firearms), Registration of Firearms Acquired by Certain Governmental Entities, and such registration shall become a part of the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. The application shall identify the applicant, describe each firearm covered by the application, show the location where each firearm usually will be kept, and, if the firearm is unserviceable, the application shall show how the firearm was made unserviceable. This section shall not apply to a firearm merely being held for use as evidence in a criminal pro ceeding. The Form 10 (Firearms) shall be executed in duplicate in accordance with the instructions thereon. Upon registering the fire arm, the Director shall return the original Form 10 (Firearms) to the
    Page 93
    registrant with notification thereon that registration of the firearm has been made. The registration of any firearm under this section is for official use only and a subsequent transfer will be approved only to other governmental entities for official use.



    "Firearm" is not the same as other laws define, by this law bare lowers/frames/receivers or muffler or firearm silencers or any destructive device or any AOW are not "Firearms" or "Guns". Kit weapons are not covered under 594 also.
    o_O
    Code Rev/AI:eab 4 I-2745.1/13
    (9) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or
    projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.

    (10) "Gun" has the same meaning as firearm.

    https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2005-4.pdf
    The GCA defines the term “firearm” as:
    (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
    http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...nal-firearms-act-definitions-any-other-weapon
    Any Other Weapon
    26 U.S.C. § 5845(E)
    For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Any Other Weapon” means:
    Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive;
    A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell;
    Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading; and
    Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.
    Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
    http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...al-firearms-act-definition-destructive-device
    Destructive Device
    26 U.S.C. § 5845(F)
    For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Destructive Device” means:
    A missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than 1/4 oz.
    Any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to expel a projectile, by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore greater than one-half inch in diameter.
    A combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a device into a destructive device and from which a destructive device can be readily assembled.

    Firearm
    26 U.S.C. Chapter 53
    For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the following definitions are used to define and verify the different types of firearms:
    § 5845(d) — The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger. Shotgun - Unaltered.
    § 5845(a)(1) — The term “Firearm” means a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; Shotgun - Barrel(s) less than 18 inches.
    § 5845(a)(2) — The term “Firearm” means a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; Shotgun - Overall length less than 26 inches and barrel(s) less than 18 inches.
    http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...des/national-firearms-act-definitions-firearm
    Rifle
    26 U.S.C., § 5485(a)
    For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the following definitions are used to define and verify the different types of firearms:
    § 5845(c) — The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. Rifle - Unaltered.
    § 5845(a)(3) — The term “Firearm” means a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; Rifle - Barrel(s) less than 16 inches.
    § 5845(a)(4) — The term “Firearm” means a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
    https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

    http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html
    http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
    The XO-26™ features an 11.5" barrel and comes in 5.56 NATO (.223 Remington,) 6.8 SPC, 300 Blackout, 7.62x39, or 450 Bushmaster. The XO-26™ ships to 01/FFLs, and it is not an AOW. Consequently, no NFA paperwork is required! Each XO-26 ships with a copy of the ATF approval letter signed by the Chief of the ATF Firearms Technology Branch.
    Product Details:
    The XO-26™ is a cross over between rifles and pistols. The 26 refers to the absolute minimum length of the firearm as allotted by federal law. However, we chose to make the length an inch longer than necessary so that it would still be long enough to qualify as a non-AOW even if the muzzle device was removed. This length also makes it easier to see the chamber indication.



    Police departments must have background checks done before they can return any weapons transferred(taken/removed/other) to them. Or if a weapon is taken by police a transfer(background check) must be done before it can be returned.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 5 I-2745.1/13
    (((15))) (17) "Person" means any individual, corporation, company,
    association, firm, partnership, club, organization, society, joint
    stock company, or other legal entity.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 6 I-2745.1/13
    (25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to
    another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment
    including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 7 I-2745.1/13
    (26) "Unlicensed person" means any person who is not a licensed
    dealer under this chapter.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 8 I-2745.1/13
    Sec. 3. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW
    (d) Any law enforcement or corrections agency and, to the extent the person is acting within the course and scope of his or her employment or official duties, any law enforcement or corrections officer, United States marshal, member of the armed forces of the United States or the national guard, or federal official;


    Transfer of pre-1968 GCA handguns can nolonger be done due to S/N being on the weapon. They didn't have serial numbers because they were made before the 1968 GCA that required serial numbers.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 12 I-2745.1/13
    (5) At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol. If the manufacturer's number is not available, the application may be processed, but delivery of the pistol to the purchaser may not occur unless the manufacturer's number is recorded on the application by the dealer and transmitted to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser resides; and a statement that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040.

    http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
    Page 52 of 243
    (5) Measurement of height and depth of markings. The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1)(i) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impres-sion bottoms (bases).
    Pages 92 of 243
    § 479.103 Registration of firearms manufactured. Each manufacturer qualified un-
    der this part shall file with the Director an accurate notice on Form 2 (Firearms), Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported, executed under the penalties of perjury, to show his manufacture of firearms. The notice shall set forth the name and address of the manufacturer, identify his special (occupational) tax stamp and Federal firearms license, and show the date of manufacture, the type, model, length of barrel, overall length, caliber, gauge or size, serial numbers, and other marks of identification of the firearms he manufactures, and the place where the manufactured firearms will be kept. All firearms manufactured by him during a single day shall be included on one notice, Form 2 (Firearms), filed by the manufacturer no later than the close of the next business day. The manufacturer shall prepare the notice, Form 2 (Firearms), in duplicate, file the original notice as prescribed herein and keep the copy with the records required by subpart I of this part at the premises covered by his special (occupational) tax stamp. Receipt of the notice, Form 2 (Firearms), by the Director shall effectuate the registration of the firearms listed on that notice. The requirements of this part relating to the transfer of a firearm are applicable to transfers by qualified manufacturers.
     
  19. Page.k

    Page.k Seattle Active Member

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    I see "part" being someone pays before the transfer/background check is started. Or it maybe taken as a "Transfer" starts as soon as you think of selling the firearm or talks of transferring ownership it with a new owner. Or maybe being in the act of transferring a firearm.
    I don't see it being firearm parts due to the number of places that sells/trades/shows parts that are made for or can be used for firearms/guns.

    Code Rev/AI:eab 6 I-2745.1/13
    (25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to
    another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment
    including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  20. Contract_Pilot

    Contract_Pilot Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Nothing about trades!