pinning or interegral Suppressor question.

wyecoyote · Jan 27, 2011

I have been watching 1016 and 5112 and a big thanks to Randb on those and any others that have worked on them. What I am asking is a question about pinned suppressors or integral suppressor. I have two rifles specifically that I am I was looking at possibly getting them for a PS90 and a GSG5. Both I would like permanent suppressors so as not to overall lengthen the rifled. I was told by a local class 3 dealer in the Tacoma area that if I buy a suppressor I could send the barrel off to Gemtech and they would cut the barrel and "pin" (don't know if that is the right wording or not) them together so as to avoid SBR of the rifle. However, looking at gemtech website they state to cut the barrel I have to have a SBR tax stamp for the rifle. Is this true? Or is there a new ruling that the local dealer isn't aware of? Also another told me that I could buy a shortened barrel and have it directly shipped to a gunsmith have them pin the suppressor to the barrel.

The other thing I was looking at is possibly just going with an integeral barrel from SRT I see that they can build one. Is it worth while and easier to go this route and actually legal? Or is the pinning the suppressor somewhat of a grey area?

It seems that I am getting different information from different dealers and would like to know what is actually legal.

Nwcid · Jan 28, 2011

There is NO grey area on this. Minimum barrel length for a rifle is 16".

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The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

You can do just about any of the above legally. You do NOT have to have SBR for any company to make a legal integral set up for you. What an integral barrel is, is a short barrel with a permanently attached silencer to keep the length over 16" to avoid having an SBR.

wyecoyote · Jan 28, 2011

Thanks NWcid that was what I was looking for something from the BATF. Any idea why Gemtech would state that to cut and then pin a suppressor for overall barrel length of 16+ inches. I would need a SBR tax stamp to cut the barrel first? Even if they are then pinning the suppressor? Or are they under greater scrutiny from the BATF or just something they as a company require?

Nwcid · Jan 28, 2011

I have no idea why Gemtech would say that. What exactly is the wording from Gemtech?

wsu 5.9er · Jan 28, 2011

Call Gemtech and ask them direct. Let me know, because I'd like to do the same thing if possible.

spengo · Jan 28, 2011

wyecoyote said:
Thanks NWcid that was what I was looking for something from the BATF. Any idea why Gemtech would state that to cut and then pin a suppressor for overall barrel length of 16+ inches. I would need a SBR tax stamp to cut the barrel first? Even if they are then pinning the suppressor? Or are they under greater scrutiny from the BATF or just something they as a company require?

If you send it to a dealer licensed to make or transfer NFA items (like GemTech) they do not need to pay any tax stamps. You can send them your barrel and they can cut it to the proper length and then permanently weld/pin a suppressor on to make it the legal 16" no problem. You will only have to pay one tax stamp, the one for the suppressor because the PS90 is not an SBR with the suppressor welded to it. Also, it would be legal to own in Washington. You just can't shoot it there until Ranb gets his bill passed.

wyecoyote · Jan 28, 2011

Nwcid said:
I have no idea why Gemtech would say that. What exactly is the wording from Gemtech?

I was looking under their faq section of Gemtech since they had information on the PS90.

One of the quotes from the faq Yes, our G5 5.56mm suppressor can also be used with the PS-90. We offer a factory correct flash hider mount using the M12x1mm threads. This is the same mount that we manufacture for FN to use on the P90 SMG with our suppressor.

The PS-90 will require registration as an SBR with the BATFE before mounting our suppressor. We recommend using the CMMG short barrel which our mount will attach directly to without any adapters. This is necessary because removing the factory flash hider from the PS-90 reduces the overall length to less than 26 inches.

I will be calling them directly to find out if they can pin the suppressor for overall length of 16 inches on the barrel. But it does sound like the overall length of the rifle must be 26 inches anyone know for certain? I admit freely that as far as NFA information I'm new and only know so much. I also looked at them since they have information about the GSG 5.

Spengo,

I hear what your saying just a want to make certain and I'll be calling them to make sure. The dealer told me they can do this one would think if they did it it would be in their faqs but I don't see anything. Yes I am waiting to make certain that it does pass before doing anything else. Big thanks to Randb if it does pass. I'll probably just start with a .22 suppressor first. Just to get a little taste of how they work.

Nwcid · Jan 28, 2011

What it says is IF the gun has less then a 16" barrel then you have to SBR it. It does read funny. What is is talking about is the use of a detachable silencer, not a permanently attached one..........

8ball · Jan 29, 2011

I'd like to do the same with a PS90 and integral suppressor. Good compromise for WA's stupid SBR law.

Is it sufficient to open the can from the front for cleaning? I've seen some people blow air through to clean them, which wouldn't be an option in this case unless you want to remove the barrel from the weapon. :huh:

I was wondering if TROS in Oregon could do it, since they sell suppressors and SBR P90s.

Nwcid · Jan 29, 2011

8ball said:
I'd like to do the same with a PS90 and integral suppressor. Good compromise for WA's stupid SBR law.

Is it sufficient to open the can from the front for cleaning? I've seen some people blow air through to clean them, which wouldn't be an option in this case unless you want to remove the barrel from the weapon. :huh:

I was wondering if TROS in Oregon could do it, since they sell suppressors and SBR P90s.

What do you need to clean it for? It is not a .22 can......... Last time I cleaned a silencer, other then .22, was never.........

Thompson Machine does make some nice silencers that are .223 rated (so will work on 5.7) that are long enough to work well in this application that are mono core that removes from the front. I have on on my GSG-5 integral.