JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Anyone who has spent very much time in the wild, and especially anyone who has actually lived in the wild knows that there exists absolutely no "balance". Scientists who have lived in the wild are the first to tell you this.

This is a myth perpetrated primarily by those who have never been challenged by a life in the wild where EXTREMES are the norm, and wild fluctuations are the regular order of the day: In animal populations, in climate, and in natural disasters (fire, etc.). The myth centers around an idea that if humans just left well enough alone, all in the wild would stabilize.

Not so.

Nature does not "strive for", nor "seek", nor "gravitate toward" ANY sort of balance, and it never has existed. Anywhere.
Then how did these things not go extinct? Before humans got involved it had to balance out, there was no choice. Predators if they got too large a population started to starve. As there were less predators the animals they ate multiplied. If there was no balance either predator or prey would cease to exist. Only when humans come along can they really screw it up. It is amazing how many humans think the world started a couple hundred years ago. :confused:
 
Humans have LONG been screwing things up like that. Then after they find they made a mess have to go back and try to undo what they did.
We started seeing effects of climate change in southwest Alaska back in the eighties. Now there are trees on the tundra where none had been. Brown bears coming out of hibernation too early, long before the salmon arrive. Seeing mother and cubs in desperate straits, ribs sticking out, is troubling. Just a matter of time until she tries breaking into houses and gets her rear shot off. (7 in one season where I was staying.) Anybody who doesn't believe in climate change has never been to Alaska. Then again, anybody who believes Biden and Gore can fix it needs psychotherapy. A far bigger problem than climate change is that we have total fools in charge. Lawyers and liars instead of engineers and pragmatic scientists.
 
Last Edited:
Remember those cheap chinese spring guns from 30 years ago? A friend got them from a wholesaler for something like $12 each by the case. Mine sat around for a few years, then was loaned to my FIL when he had a squirrel problem in his neighborhood. He returned it in two weeks, having killed 20+ tree rats with it. It killed them just fine.
 
"Predators if they got too large a population started to starve. As there were less predators the animals they ate multiplied. If there was no balance either predator or prey would cease to exist."

Quite the leap of logic to connect significant population fluctuations (the norm in Nature whether or not man is present) with mandatory extinction as a result. This statement does have value though, as it describes precisely those normal (and extreme) fluctuations. These fluctuations in population are not however, any major cause of extinction of a species.

Wolves DO increase in numbers to the point where they begin to starve. Elk CAN increase in population to the point where they cause streamside damage. Mange in a Wolf population can eradicate that population in short order. Chronic Wasting Disease can accomplish the same with an Elk population. In the wild, stability ("balance") is not the default. It's not even an available option, and never has been.

Both species are going to be here long after we are gone and they have continued to exist with no help from a (human-imagined and emotionally created) concept of "balance" for thousands of years. It makes far more sense to believe that these extreme variations (in populations, climate, natural disasters and the like) actually serve to strengthen the species, not cause them to disappear.

I give Wolves and Elk a lot more credit than that. I've lived with them.
 
"Predators if they got too large a population started to starve. As there were less predators the animals they ate multiplied. If there was no balance either predator or prey would cease to exist."

Quite the leap of logic to connect significant population fluctuations (the norm in Nature whether or not man is present) with mandatory extinction as a result. This statement does have value though, as it describes precisely those normal (and extreme) fluctuations. These fluctuations in population are not however, any major cause of extinction of a species.

Wolves DO increase in numbers to the point where they begin to starve. Elk CAN increase in population to the point where they cause streamside damage. Mange in a Wolf population can eradicate that population in short order. Chronic Wasting Disease can accomplish the same with an Elk population. In the wild, stability ("balance") is not the default. It's not even an available option, and never has been.

Both species are going to be here long after we are gone and they have continued to exist with no help from a (human-imagined and emotionally created) concept of "balance" for thousands of years. It makes far more sense to believe that these extreme variations (in populations, climate, natural disasters and the like) actually serve to strengthen the species, not cause them to disappear.

I give Wolves and Elk a lot more credit than that. I've lived with them.
As an aside, two things that I greatly appreciate about this website:(a) people feel free to share differing opinions and (b) those differing opinions are, in the main, shared respectfully without rancor or personal abuse. These days, with Americans at each's throats, that's pure gold!
 
Anybody wanna talk about Air Rifles and Amazon? :cool:
:D If you hang around this place, as with almost any groups on the net you will see a LOT of drift in threads. Since the net came along and people started making groups like this that has been the case. MANY would start their own and very tightly control what was said to prevent this. Soon there would be only a handful of members talking to each other wondering why there was only a handful of members :s0092:
The simple solution is hitting next. Many for some reason find that over the top hard to do. :s0092:
 
I've read horror stories about AMZN selling damaged returned goods as new. This ripped-open box sure makes me wonder. I'm tempted to return it and buy the gun from a legitimate outlet like AirGun Depot. Any thoughts or similar AMZN experiences?
Just for fun: first Brown bears of the season (Bristol Bay).

First Brown bears of the season 06.19.2023 (Kat's).png
 
I've read horror stories about AMZN selling damaged returned goods as new. This ripped-open box sure makes me wonder. I'm tempted to return it and buy the gun from a legitimate outlet like AirGun Depot. Any thoughts or similar AMZN experiences?
UPDATE: now that I'm geared up and ready, all the squirrels have disappeared! Poof! Overnight. In this neighborhood of fairly well-off office worker types, nobody does anything themselves. It all gets farmed out. My bet is that somebody hired a pest control outfit. I'll wait. They'll be back.
 
Kinda like wolves. Humans went so full on eradicating them that we threw the natural balance out of whack in many ecosystems.

I watched a good documentary about the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone. Without wolves deers and other herbivores got out of control which lead to a number of problems.

It's too much for me to type out here but it's interesting on how much the ecosystem improved by wolves adding balance back.
🙄
Wolf "reintroduction" was illegal, and nowhere near beneficial.
The Idaho legislature actually prohibited and attempted to block the "introduction" of a non-native, diseased species, but that plague (diseased wolves) had already very quietly been introduced into the Rockies, including Idaho.
Now, about the disease...
In the mid 80s the sheep industry got hammered by echinococcus granulosis, a two-host tapeworm. No sheep could be moved out of Idaho or Utah during this period. In order to control this tapeworm thousands of sheep were killed and burned to ash in the field. Thousands of coyotes, foxes, and some guard dogs were killed. Millions of dollars were spent in both states treating sheep dogs with regular injections in the field. The result is that Idaho & Utah were deemed to be free of the echinococcus granulosis tapeworm in 1986. The sheep industry in Utah & Idaho were back in business.
About ten years later in 1995 some of the very people we trust to manage game herds illegally introduced a non-native apex predator into a situation where native wolves existed, albeit in low numbers. And that introduced predator brought echinococcus granulosis tapeworms back into Idaho, and nobody really gives a 💩.
 
🙄
Wolf "reintroduction" was illegal, and nowhere near beneficial.
The Idaho legislature actually prohibited and attempted to block the "introduction" of a non-native, diseased species, but that plague (diseased wolves) had already very quietly been introduced into the Rockies, including Idaho.
Now, about the disease...
In the mid 80s the sheep industry got hammered by echinococcus granulosis, a two-host tapeworm. No sheep could be moved out of Idaho or Utah during this period. In order to control this tapeworm thousands of sheep were killed and burned to ash in the field. Thousands of coyotes, foxes, and some guard dogs were killed. Millions of dollars were spent in both states treating sheep dogs with regular injections in the field. The result is that Idaho & Utah were deemed to be free of the echinococcus granulosis tapeworm in 1986. The sheep industry in Utah & Idaho were back in business.
About ten years later in 1995 some of the very people we trust to manage game herds illegally introduced a non-native apex predator into a situation where native wolves existed, albeit in low numbers. And that introduced predator brought echinococcus granulosis tapeworms back into Idaho, and nobody really gives a 💩.
Interesting indeed. The level of detailed factual knowledge held collectively by subscribers to this website is endlessly impressive. Striking contrast to the legacy media, wherein people getting paid millions of dollars for being "journalists" either know nothing and/or simply lie.
 
🙄
Wolf "reintroduction" was illegal, and nowhere near beneficial.
The Idaho legislature actually prohibited and attempted to block the "introduction" of a non-native, diseased species, but that plague (diseased wolves) had already very quietly been introduced into the Rockies, including Idaho.
Now, about the disease...
In the mid 80s the sheep industry got hammered by echinococcus granulosis, a two-host tapeworm. No sheep could be moved out of Idaho or Utah during this period. In order to control this tapeworm thousands of sheep were killed and burned to ash in the field. Thousands of coyotes, foxes, and some guard dogs were killed. Millions of dollars were spent in both states treating sheep dogs with regular injections in the field. The result is that Idaho & Utah were deemed to be free of the echinococcus granulosis tapeworm in 1986. The sheep industry in Utah & Idaho were back in business.
About ten years later in 1995 some of the very people we trust to manage game herds illegally introduced a non-native apex predator into a situation where native wolves existed, albeit in low numbers. And that introduced predator brought echinococcus granulosis tapeworms back into Idaho, and nobody really gives a 💩.
Sounds like "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Almost everything they touch turns to crap. As always they have "experts" telling all that it was NOT their fault. :mad:
 
🙄
Wolf "reintroduction" was illegal, and nowhere near beneficial.
The Idaho legislature actually prohibited and attempted to block the "introduction" of a non-native, diseased species, but that plague (diseased wolves) had already very quietly been introduced into the Rockies, including Idaho.
Now, about the disease...
In the mid 80s the sheep industry got hammered by echinococcus granulosis, a two-host tapeworm. No sheep could be moved out of Idaho or Utah during this period. In order to control this tapeworm thousands of sheep were killed and burned to ash in the field. Thousands of coyotes, foxes, and some guard dogs were killed. Millions of dollars were spent in both states treating sheep dogs with regular injections in the field. The result is that Idaho & Utah were deemed to be free of the echinococcus granulosis tapeworm in 1986. The sheep industry in Utah & Idaho were back in business.
About ten years later in 1995 some of the very people we trust to manage game herds illegally introduced a non-native apex predator into a situation where native wolves existed, albeit in low numbers. And that introduced predator brought echinococcus granulosis tapeworms back into Idaho, and nobody really gives a
Human error is always a possibility and those failures could've been avoided im guessing.

It takes nature thousands/millions of years to get things right. We as a species have a hard time playing God with positive results even with the best of intentions.
 
Sounds like "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Almost everything they touch turns to crap. As always they have "experts" telling all that it was NOT their fault. :mad:
I was a government contractor for a while. The general public has NO idea how corrupt, conniving, and incompetent many government employees are, especially at the top. Besides the usual buffoonery, I witnessed felonies being covered up. The perps weren't janitors or clerks, but officials at the top end of the food chain. If I hadn't seen it close up, I would never have believed it. The Feds won't even fire actual criminals.
 

Upcoming Events

Oregon Arms Collectors April 2024 Gun Show
Portland, OR
Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA
Albany Gun Show
Albany, OR
Falcon Gun Show - Classic Gun & Knife Show
Stanwood, WA
Wes Knodel Gun & Knife Show - Albany
Albany, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top