Paris, a look from a different angle.

[4Freedom]

To revert to some of the earlier comments on this thread and infuse a bit of critique on the subject of Old Guns vs New Guns, etc.

I will say, yes, we can make a point how effective older models of guns can be and how in the right hands, even a piece of crap rifle/pistol can be more effective than the latest and greatest modern rifle/pistol, etc. In fact, even a knife can be more deadly than a gun in the right hands in many scenarios. However, you really have to say that it is a sad state of affairs when the criminals have better or more modern weapons (and possibly better training) than the country's law enforcement. What does that tell you about the situation of this country?

I rather both the citizenry (peasantry in case of France), law enforcement and military have the most modern weapons available and be well trained with them. In theory, a very well trained shooter can probably take out an entire group of terrorists armed with fully auto AK-47s (which the terrorists had) with a bolt action Mosin/Nagant rifle. Some Russian snipers accumulated very high kill counts with these rifles in WWII. So, why not just advocate to arm all our soldiers with them if we feel so confident about their capabilities?


One thing nobody here seem to mention is what is up with those low capacity magazines? Seriously, they look like 10 round magazines? As far as a tactical advantage, the criminals have happy switch AK-47s with high cap magazines, explosives, rocket launchers (yes, they found a rocket launcher), suicide explosive belts, grenades, etc. Why should they be outgunned by the criminals for the sake of political correctness?

Also, people seem to fail to realize that many of these terrorists have actually more military and combat training than these police forces do, especially European ones.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's all settled then.

 

[4Freedom]

I thought it be interesting to take a peek at anti-terrorist units from a completely other side of the globe.. Here is some various photos of anti-terrorism police units in training in China.. I'm not saying who looks more formidable or well organized, just thought its interesting to compare the differences. China, being much more of a police state, obviously has some advantages in defending themselves against terrorism. The problem, obviously, is the Chinese government themselves have a bit of a poor track record in committing some of their own terrorist acts against their citizens.

Leaving that point aside, I just thought it was interesting to compare the differences in weaponry, gear, training, etc between a country like China and France.

 

[etrain16]

Looks like a FAMAS? Doesn't look like the ones I've seen before though. I'm trying to figure out what the device on the side is - any thoughts? The one that's sitting just below the rail and wraps around just above the ejection port. Looks like it may be a laser? The heading said this was one of the French soldiers from the raid yesterday.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Looks like a FAMAS? Doesn't look like the ones I've seen before though. I'm trying to figure out what the device on the side is - any thoughts? The one that's sitting just below the rail and wraps around just above the ejection port. Looks like it may be a laser? The heading said this was one of the French soldiers from the raid yesterday.

View attachment 264027

It looks like a funky bipod.

 

[rdb241]

I can post my sources; even in France, guns must be locked-up at a private shooting club and there are all sorts of red tape about usage
Where I live the AVERAGE # of Firearms is 8 per household. Tragically we had a suicide, 10 years ago, it did involve a firearm.; but the person involved was dosed w/SSRIs and had been suicidal for a period of years. No other gun 'crimes' at all for over 90 years

Please post your proof! It almost sounds like you are describing Mexico. Federal laws in Mexico say no private ownership of firearms but EVERYBODY has a gun in Mexico.

 

[tac]

It looks like a funky bipod.

C'est ca.

Only the CQB version has a LASER attached, and that is usually on the left of the shortened barrel.

tac

 

[erudne]

Here in yUK, the gun-owner is totally responsible for the security of his or her guns, and keeps them all at home, along with the ammunition. I've got three cabinets for my nineteen guns, and a smaller one for the ammunition and bolts [where applicable].

The only guns kept in clubs here are those that belong to the club.

There is absolutely no point in comparing where each of us lives - I live in a very different country, with very different laws and very different people.

tac

you do realize that the reason the US has it's gun laws is because of your Gov.?

 

[rdb241]

you do realize that the reason the US has it's gun laws is because of your Gov.?

Um, I think he is a US citizen living over there?

 

[tac]

you do realize that the reason the US has it's gun laws is because of your Gov.?

Sir, you are labouring under a misapprehension of colossal proportions.

When your country was fighting the British, my father's ancestors where digging up mud in County Cork, Ireland, trying not to starve to death from the greedy mismanagement of their English landlords. My mother's ancestors on one side were caring for the orchards from which their name of Orchard was taken, and on the other side, fleeing France from religious persecution.

I am, therefore, just one-eighth British.

Foisting me with proxy ownership of an organisation that provided the rationale behind the the Declaration of Independence and the wording of your Constitution might give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but it is not germane to this thread. It is successive and ever-more paranoid British governments that have engendered the present state of gun laws in the UK, and if you are not vigilant, I can see your country heading inexorably in the same direction without any external assistance.

I apologise to all for the thread drift, and if anybody wishes to engage me in a useful and informative conversation about gun laws here in yUK, then I'm up for it, but in a new thread.

tac

 

[rdb241]

Looks like a FAMAS? Doesn't look like the ones I've seen before though. I'm trying to figure out what the device on the side is - any thoughts? The one that's sitting just below the rail and wraps around just above the ejection port. Looks like it may be a laser? The heading said this was one of the French soldiers from the raid yesterday.

View attachment 264027

Well it looks like the FAMAS has grown up so to speak. These are images of the FAMAS Felin. Same bipod.

 

[etrain16]

Well it looks like the FAMAS has grown up so to speak. These are images of the FAMAS Felin. Same bipod.

Okay, that makes sense. But, I'm still unclear what the item is in the photo I posted. I'm looking at the device between the bottom of the rail and just above the bipod leg. Any thoughts on that?

 

[rdb241]

etrain, looking at the pic you posted. You can see the picatiny rail across the top. I was confused as to what that was until I saw the images I posted. I am going to guess that the black tube like thing on the side, is either a tact light or a laser. I am leaning towards a tact light.

 

[etrain16]

etrain, looking at the pic you posted. You can see the picatiny rail across the top. I was confused as to what that was until I saw the images I posted. I am going to guess that the black tube like thing on the side, is either a tact light or a laser. I am leaning towards a tact light.

I was leaning that way myself, just was looking to see if anyone knew for certain.

 

[tac]

Ah, you mean the tactical light/LASER on the non-CQB version.

Why didn't you say so!

tac

 

[erudne]

Sir, you are labouring under a misapprehension of colossal proportions.

When your country was fighting the British, my father's ancestors where digging up mud in County Cork, Ireland, trying not to starve to death from the greedy mismanagement of their English landlords. My mother's ancestors on one side were caring for the orchards from which their name of Orchard was taken, and on the other side, fleeing France from religious persecution.

I am, therefore, just one-eighth British.

Foisting me with proxy ownership of an organisation that provided the rationale behind the the Declaration of Independence and the wording of your Constitution might give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but it is not germane to this thread. It is successive and ever-more paranoid British governments that have engendered the present state of gun laws in the UK, and if you are not vigilant, I can see your country heading inexorably in the same direction without any external assistance.

I apologise to all for the thread drift, and if anybody wishes to engage me in a useful and informative conversation about gun laws here in yUK, then I'm up for it, but in a new thread.

tac

strange, when your angry you sound like a French man. Would you like some cheese w/your whine?

 

[rdb241]

Dude! Knock it off and grow up. Stop poking and just move on. We know how you feel from your previous posts. So let it go. In all honesty, you were rude to him first.

 

[tac]

I'm not angry, just saddened that yet another American forum has people on it that seem to enjoy either taking the piss or being plain insulting to folks they've never met - nor likely to - for the sake of some kind of chest-thumping.

One guy here saw how pointless it all was, and had the guts to apologise in writing, and for that I stand up with him. I worked for, with, and ended up commanding US military personnel in my previous life, and truthfully never encountered anything like the crap I've taken here, and really, I'm too old to change much about how I am. It's a sure thing that I can't change the laws here in UK, and it goes without saying that I'm agin every single one of them, particularly the ones that limit how many guns I can own and that I can't carry one to defend myself or my family from the goblins. Not that there are any around here in the ultra-quiet rural village we live in.

So I'll continue to give soft answers, in the hope of turning away the wrath that some of you still feel towards anything British, or just different.

Gentlemen, we move on.

Please.

tac

 

[Swedish K]

In the rest of the pictures, the officers are all carrying Beretta M12's. Why are they using WWII technology? I thought the MP5 was the standard? The Beretta was used for combat up through Viet Namn. Can't the French afford MP5's?

The French military, particularly their SF type units do or did use the MP5 - in fact the MP5-f variant was built specifically for them. The MP5f is a somewhat more robust version as the specifications of the contract required that they hold up to a steady diet of proof rounds.

 

[tac]

Having spent a deal of time 'playing' with the FAMAS, I have to say that it is both incredibly wieldy in close-up situations like CQB, even without the ultra-short barrel version to hand, easy learn the DM and very accurate, too. Maybe because it is surprisingly heavy for its size, even on full-auto I was able to keep the entire magazine-load in the black of an NRA 25 yard pistol target at 20m, and I'm nothing special when it comes to handling strange guns. I'd go to war with one, for sure.

It's VERY like the TAVOR in many ways, so if you've shot one of those fine pieces, you'll have not trouble translating to the FAMAS.

tac