Paris, a look from a different angle.

[albin25]

The News is reporting that a very successful raid has wiped out a known ISIS ammo storage faculity and a known ISIS training camp... good... bravo
....one question though.

If these targets were already "known"... why weren't they rubble-ized long ago?

 

[jbett98]

They weren't exactly in a hurry to join in the gunfight either.

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...2331866541081/960x540_6168412331866541081.mp4

 

[IheartSig]

The French are hardly know for their tenacity in battle, or thirst for war.

That being said, perhaps this is a dawning of a new era for France.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

They weren't exactly in a hurry to join in the gunfight either.

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/video/...2331866541081/960x540_6168412331866541081.mp4

One little guy actually engaging! The rest running around in a small circle!

The French are hardly know for their tenacity in battle, or thirst for war.

That being said, perhaps this is a dawning of a new era for France.

It sure is! That one whole guy returned to the fight instead of fleeing down the rue to the doughnut bistro with the rest! Impressive dude!

 

[rdb241]

WOW...you guys are good.

 

[nwslopoke]

It's all fun and games until the shooting starts. Now that it started we need to embrace the French instead of continually bagging on them.

So they use old guns. I bought my AK before any of my ARs. Tactics win the day here. Whether it's an MP5 or a Tommy gun. Also remember only some of the French surrendered. Their resistance movement was pretty badass.

 

[Capn Jack]

Also remember only some of the French surrendered. Their resistance movement was pretty badass.

Meaning their government.

 

[tac]

I have to admit to a certain amount of surprise that you make such scathing remarks about your oldest allies, without whose help your fight for independence might not have been quite to successful so soon..

However, not wishing to attract any more attention to myself, I'll shut up.

Thiérry Alleyne de Crespigney [Foley] - AKA tac

 

[Brutus57]

Remember, this choice was made before they realized there were going to be bad guys who could shoot back. They had 99.5 % of the French civilians greatly outgunned with these French mini 14s. Although when I think of a French mini I think of something a little more attractive .....jus sayin'

Brutus Out

 

[tac]

Just to make a point, ignoring the various categories of firearms in the French rule book, but just under a quarter of all households have guns, often between three and four per house, with around 20 million registered firearms in circulation. With a population of 66 million that's not too shabby, I would have thought.

That's almost ten times for that the UK, which has a slightly smaller population, but a lot more gun laws.

tac

 

[Capn Jack]

What's the % of handguns? Not many I would wager. I think you will find the largest % of allowable firearms is shotguns. You may take a shotgun to a wedding, but normally not to a rock concert.

 

[bolus]

Oh shyles,'ow do i get it off ma neck?

View attachment 263587

Thanks to the guy on the left, I know what my chubby self would look like in police riot gear. Merci!

 

[mkwerx]

And old submachine gun will kill just as surely as a shiney modern gun in the same caliber. If the guns are reliable and maintained - why replace them just to piss money away? American police agencies - and the American government in general love pissing away money on toys they will likely never, ever need. They will find a use for them once they get them, but they likely did NOT need them in the first place. Look how often police agencies change sidearms or calibers.

The US military is using outdated small arms - there are far more modern guns available than the grunts are toting around in both pistol and rifle form. They still kill.

The French likely have not put as much money into training their police forces to be soldiers as we see in America. They may have some crazy socialist views and different priorities, but I bet they don't have but a fraction of the deadly force scenarios we see in the US, the cops aren't nearly as trigger happy, and aren't nearly as military looking and acting in day to day duties. That's not a bad thing necessarily. Bad things happen - they're going to happen regardless of how new the guns and armor and size of the vehicles the cops respond in. Note I said "Respond in" - the cops won't be there when bad **** happens. They will start to roll when they are called - and lots of agencies have policies restricting officers from engaging until they have backup on scene. That's slowly changing for some scenarios, but it is still the predominant rule.

We have different cultures than the French - but share many values with them. THey're easy to poke fun at from our standpoint, but the French resistance in WW2 was not to be trifled with, and as Tac pointed out - without their assistance our Revolutionary War probably would not have gone nearly so well, and we could still be countrymen to tac today without their help.

They also sold us half of the US for a song (hello, Louisiana Purchase).

They don't need MP5s (which, btw are hardly "modern" - it's a downscaled G3 which was a CETME clone and that traces it's roots to the STG44 of WW2 vintage) when those Berettas fire the same pistol round. They don't need AR-15's or FAMAS or M4's when the AC556 fires the same round.

 

[Boats]

And old submachine gun will kill just as surely as a shiney modern gun in the same caliber. If the guns are reliable and maintained - why replace them just to piss money away? American police agencies - and the American government in general love pissing away money on toys they will likely never, ever need. They will find a use for them once they get them, but they likely did NOT need them in the first place. Look how often police agencies change sidearms or calibers.

The US military is using outdated small arms - there are far more modern guns available than the grunts are toting around in both pistol and rifle form. They still kill.

The French likely have not put as much money into training their police forces to be soldiers as we see in America. They may have some crazy socialist views and different priorities, but I bet they don't have but a fraction of the deadly force scenarios we see in the US, the cops aren't nearly as trigger happy, and aren't nearly as military looking and acting in day to day duties. That's not a bad thing necessarily. Bad things happen - they're going to happen regardless of how new the guns and armor and size of the vehicles the cops respond in. Note I said "Respond in" - the cops won't be there when bad **** happens. They will start to roll when they are called - and lots of agencies have policies restricting officers from engaging until they have backup on scene. That's slowly changing for some scenarios, but it is still the predominant rule.

We have different cultures than the French - but share many values with them. THey're easy to poke fun at from our standpoint, but the French resistance in WW2 was not to be trifled with, and as Tac pointed out - without their assistance our Revolutionary War probably would not have gone nearly so well, and we could still be countrymen to tac today without their help.

They also sold us half of the US for a song (hello, Louisiana Purchase).

They don't need MP5s (which, btw are hardly "modern" - it's a downscaled G3 which was a CETME clone and that traces it's roots to the STG44 of WW2 vintage) when those Berettas fire the same pistol round. They don't need AR-15's or FAMAS or M4's when the AC556 fires the same round.

You have to forgive the fashionistas in this thread. They undoubtedly play more Call of Duty than the average French policeman, none of which seem to know that the AR hailing from the 1950s is "modern."

 

[mkwerx]

Firearms have not taken drastic leaps in operation or design since the 50s/60s save for materials. Short stroke piston driven autos were 1940s tech. DI guns about the same time. We are still utilizing tilting barrel Browning actions in the vast majority of pistols. Most submachine guns / pistol carbines are blowback. Crap - how many modern gun guys still tote 1911s and chant it ain't real if it ain't steel? The 1911 itself dates back to guns designed a decade prior. That puts that design at almost 120 years old.

Maybe the froggies stick wuth the old guns because they have more style and soul? Or like I said earlier if they arent broken why replace them?

 

[erudne]

I hate to burst bubbles but French gun laws are extreme, on the par of Britain/Australia However handgun crime is very high and climbing w/75% of armed assaults being carried out by Muslim males. Jails are so full that non-gun crimes often go unpunished. There have been over 200 major terrorist attacks in the last 15 years. There is an estimated 26,000 terrorist supporters in France

 

[tac]

I hate to burst bubbles but French gun laws are extreme, on the par of Britain/Australia However handgun crime is very high and climbing w/75% of armed assaults being carried out by Muslim males. Jails are so full that non-gun crimes often go unpunished. There have been over 200 major terrorist attacks in the last 15 years. There is an estimated 26,000 terrorist supporters in France

You think?

Not even near. I LIVE in yUK and travel to France. Their laws, whilst not that dissimilar, at least allow the ordinary Joe to buy any kind of a handgun, and almost any kind of semi-auto centrefire. Nor do they count single-shot muzzleloaders, replica or antique, as 'real' firearms - all of these limitations are law in yUK, but not in France.

tac

 

[erudne]

I can post my sources; even in France, guns must be locked-up at a private shooting club and there are all sorts of red tape about usage
Where I live the AVERAGE # of Firearms is 8 per household. Tragically we had a suicide, 10 years ago, it did involve a firearm.; but the person involved was dosed w/SSRIs and had been suicidal for a period of years. No other gun 'crimes' at all for over 90 years

 

[Sgt Nambu]

"Their resistance was pretty badass!"

The row upon row of white crosses are pretty badass also! And, as allies since WW 2 the arrogant Richards can kiss my hinie! A word that they don't have to use thanks to us!

 

[tac]

I can post my sources; even in France, guns must be locked-up at a private shooting club and there are all sorts of red tape about usage
Where I live the AVERAGE # of Firearms is 8 per household. Tragically we had a suicide, 10 years ago, it did involve a firearm.; but the person involved was dosed w/SSRIs and had been suicidal for a period of years. No other gun 'crimes' at all for over 90 years

Here in yUK, the gun-owner is totally responsible for the security of his or her guns, and keeps them all at home, along with the ammunition. I've got three cabinets for my nineteen guns, and a smaller one for the ammunition and bolts [where applicable].

The only guns kept in clubs here are those that belong to the club.

There is absolutely no point in comparing where each of us lives - I live in a very different country, with very different laws and very different people.

tac