Ordered 16lbs of MP 842 Powder (similar to WC 842). Need good source of starting load data.

[arakboss]

I just ordered 16 pounds of MP 842 powder. It is suppose to be similar to WC 842. Seller recommends "Work up all loads using WC 842 minus 10% Minimum Load" . Can't really find much data on WC 842 either. If anybody here has a good source for surplus or pull down powder data please share. If you have used WC 842 or MP 842 let me know what your experiences were. I am fine with starting really low but don't want to stick a bullet in the barrel.

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[CLT65]

I recently worked up a couple loads with some WC-842. It seems like good powder. 24.5gr gave me about 3200fps with a 55gr fmj bullet in a 24" Rem 700. Don't use my data though; it's just what worked for me, in my gun, with the powder I got.

Surplus powder often varies in burn rate from one lot to another, so the powder you have could very well be different.

 

[arakboss]

I recently worked up a couple loads with some WC-842. It seems like good powder. 24.5gr gave me about 3200fps with a 55gr fmj bullet in a 24" Rem 700. Don't use my data though; it's just what worked for me, in my gun, with the powder I got.

Surplus powder often varies in burn rate from one lot to another, so the powder you have could very well be different.

Thanks for that info. I am trying to find a starting load to work up from that won't cause a stuck bullet in my barrel. Any suggestions on where to find good WC load data?

 

[DizzyJ]

American reloading?
Sometimes they can help with load information.

 

[CLT65]

Thanks for that info. I am trying to find a starting load to work up from that won't cause a stuck bullet in my barrel. Any suggestions on where to find good WC load data?

Do you have a chronograph? I think I started at around 22gr.

 

[gmerkt]

There is enough noise on the internet about this powder to urge caution as to charge amounts. My recommendation would be to start at 20.0 and see what happens. You're not gonna stick a .224 bullet in the bore with 20.0 grains but you're probably not gonna start piercing primers either. If you don't have a chronograph, you need one to do this properly. Particularly if you have a specific velocity expectation. Basically, you've entered into the field of experimentation. Milsurp powders vary from lot to lot. Plants that manufacture military ammo test each powder lot so they can tweak the powder charge in loaded ammo to meet performance specifications. You can get an inexpensive Chrony brand or similar that will greatly help you in this work. And it can be used over and over in the future. What you've embarked on isn't like reloading from the book. Good luck with the project.

 

[Mygrainman]

Don't use my data though; it's just what worked for me, in my gun, with the powder I got.

Surplus powder often varies in burn rate from one lot to another, so the powder you have could very well be different.

This!
It's probably a good thing you got a lot of it from the same batch. Because once you burn through it your load data will be useless... if it came in more than one container, I'd combine them and mix it together before starting a work up..
Contracted manufacturers like Lake City get big batches of powder and they test the burn rate and pressures of each lot and adjust the load accordingly. Off the shelf powders are way stricter because obviously the hobby loader doesn't have the equipment to do that thus it is more expensive...
When you buy milsurp powders it can be pulled from different bullets all from different lots so it's impossibly to publish any kind of accurate data...
So like I said.. best bet is to take any separate containers and mix them all together so your entire stock is consistent. Once it's used up... If you chose to get another batch you'll have to start your work up from scratch.

Some guys said this was the same as CFE223, and had good luck going off that data* BUT * other guys had disastrous results. American reloading now puts "this is not CFE223 " their description to avoid having people blow their faces off.
Too bad because CFE223 is one of my favorite powders for 55g FMJBTs

 

[Caveman Jim]

This!
It's probably a good thing you got a lot of it from the same batch. Because once you burn through it your load data will be useless... if it came in more than one container, I'd combine them and mix it together before starting a work up..
Contracted manufacturers like Lake City get big batches of powder and they test the burn rate and pressures of each lot and adjust the load accordingly. Off the shelf powders are way stricter because obviously the hobby loader doesn't have the equipment to do that thus it is more expensive...
When you buy milsurp powders it can be pulled from different bullets all from different lots so it's impossibly to publish any kind of accurate data...
So like I said.. best bet is to take any separate containers and mix them all together so your entire stock is consistent. Once it's used up... If you chose to get another batch you'll have to start your work up from scratch.

Some guys said this was the same as CFE223, and had good luck going off that data* BUT * other guys had disastrous results. American reloading now puts "this is not CFE223 " their description to avoid having people blow their faces off.
Too bad because CFE223 is one of my favorite powders for 55g FMJBTs

As is mine too but I cannot find it anymore due to this panic buying BS....

 

[arakboss]

American reloading?
Sometimes they can help with load information.

I did order it from them, I didn't expect that they would provide more info than what is available on their website but I will send them an email and see if they will provide any additional info on load data.

 

[Mygrainman]

I did order it from them, I didn't expect that they would provide more info than what is available on their website but I will send them an email and see if they will provide any additional info on load data.

"This is not CFE223" wasn't specific enough?

 

[arakboss]

There is enough noise on the internet about this powder to urge caution as to charge amounts. My recommendation would be to start at 20.0 and see what happens. You're not gonna stick a .224 bullet in the bore with 20.0 grains but you're probably not gonna start piercing primers either. If you don't have a chronograph, you need one to do this properly. Particularly if you have a specific velocity expectation. Basically, you've entered into the field of experimentation. Milsurp powders vary from lot to lot. Plants that manufacture military ammo test each powder lot so they can tweak the powder charge in loaded ammo to meet performance specifications. You can get an inexpensive Chrony brand or similar that will greatly help you in this work. And it can be used over and over in the future. What you've embarked on isn't like reloading from the book. Good luck with the project.

I read about certain batches being pretty hot. I don't own a Chrony and I am not looking for any specific velocity goals. My initial goals are not to stick a bullet in the barrel and not to blow my fingers or face apart. Once I feel comfortable that I have a load that won't leave a bullet in the barrel, I will slowly work up to something that hopefully groups well. The price delivered to my door was $15 a lb which is hard to beat right now for 16lbs of rifle powder from the same lot. I think 20gr might be a good starting point for a 55gr bullet. Thanks

 

[arakboss]

Do you have a chronograph? I think I started at around 22gr.

No chrony right now but I think will start around 20gr. Thanks.

 

[CLT65]

I wouldn't want to tackle surplus powder without a chronograph, but it can be done if you're careful. With practice you can get good at comparing felt recoil, ejection patterns, pressure signs, etc.. When you get a preliminary load worked up, if you want, we could meet and shoot a few across my chronograph. You're only a half hour or so from where I shoot.

 

[arakboss]

American reloading is not going to be much help. I sent them an email asking if the powder was virgin or pull down powder and I asked them for a source of load data for WC 842 or the phone number for the manufacture of the powder. This is the reply they sent me (note the higher max powder measurement for a heavier bullet):


Yes it is surplus from Lake City. Loading in 223 or 308?

55gr FMJ - 24.2 grains max load

62gr SS109 - 25.7 grains max load


I think I will stick to a 20 or 21gr starting load and work up from there. From what I have been reading about the M855A1 this powder is pretty hot stuff. Hopefully it will group well with lower charge weights.

 

[CLT65]

Yeah, that max load for SS109 seems high to me. I stopped a couple grains lower than that, and got velocities identical to factory ammo.

The idea to start at 20 is a good one. That's probably going to be very light; if I had to guess probably under 2400 fps, but you'll notice if they feel really light, and you can up from there easily. I tend to start very light with surplus just to be safe, with just a couple rounds.

If it's an AR, 20gr may not even cycle the action, but at least you'll know. Without a chronograph, I think that ejection pattern, as compared to factory ammo, will be useful to get an idea for where your loads are at as far as pressure and velocity. Also, the offer of chronograph use stands. It's really no problem at all.

 

[DizzyJ]

American reloading is not going to be much help. I sent them an email asking if the powder was virgin or pull down powder and I asked them for a source of load data for WC 842 or the phone number for the manufacture of the powder. This is the reply they sent me (note the higher max powder measurement for a heavier bullet):


Yes it is surplus from Lake City. Loading in 223 or 308?

55gr FMJ - 24.2 grains max load

62gr SS109 - 25.7 grains max load


I think I will stick to a 20 or 21gr starting load and work up from there. From what I have been reading about the M855A1 this powder is pretty hot stuff. Hopefully it will group well with lower charge weights.

I'd say it's better than nothing. Of course drop down quite a bit from that.

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick!

 

[arakboss]

I'd say it's better than nothing. Of course drop down quite a bit from that.

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick!

Agreed I don't like sharp sticks to the eye
I asked them to double check that info on 223 loads and for data on 308 loads in 150 and 175 bullet size and they sent this reply. I give them B+ for replying quickly.


Yeah that is weird but they tested it that way with good results. I know some manufacturers use a lot more than that which scares me. I would start at 24 grains and work your way up.

308 150gr Nosler - 45.3 grains max

308 175gr SMK - 42.9 grains max

 

[arakboss]

Yeah, that max load for SS109 seems high to me. I stopped a couple grains lower than that, and got velocities identical to factory ammo.

The idea to start at 20 is a good one. That's probably going to be very light; if I had to guess probably under 2400 fps, but you'll notice if they feel really light, and you can up from there easily. I tend to start very light with surplus just to be safe, with just a couple rounds.

If it's an AR, 20gr may not even cycle the action, but at least you'll know. Without a chronograph, I think that ejection pattern, as compared to factory ammo, will be useful to get an idea for where your loads are at as far as pressure and velocity. Also, the offer of chronograph use stands. It's really no problem at all.

I appreciate the offer, I will keep you informed on my progress.

 

[osprey]

Right now I am working my way through a 8# jug of wc846 I bought years ago. It is definitely hotter than it's commercial counterpart blc(2). I am at 1.5 grs lower to get similar results that I had with blc(2) in .308. I always assume surplus powder will be hotter and start at 10% lower than min published charge for it's commercial equivalent and work up. Most times I have found surplus powders hotter than their comm equivalents but sometimes about the same and one instance I found it to be slower in burn rate. Be safe

 

[arakboss]

Right now I am working my way through a 8# jug of wc846 I bought years ago. It is definitely hotter than it's commercial counterpart blc(2). I am at 1.5 grs lower to get similar results that I had with blc(2) in .308. I always assume surplus powder will be hotter and start at 10% lower than min published charge for it's commercial equivalent and work up. Most times I have found surplus powders hotter than their comm equivalents but sometimes about the same and one instance I found it to be slower in burn rate. Be safe

Good advice, the problem with this MP842 is they won't give us a canister grade equivalent. From what I have read it appears to be a special formula for the M855A1 round. It is hotter and delivers substantially more gas port pressure compared to the normal M855 powder. Probably wasn't the best choice for my first attempt at using surplus powder.