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OK next poll question 18.5" w/+2rds or 20"w/+3rds

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Mark W., Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Ok my little poll on red laser or flashlight was very enlightening. So I thought lets try another.

    For those not up on the project. I am building a home defense Remington 870 shotgun.

    so far these are the details

    Remington 2 3/4" Wingmaster receiver

    ATI Akita adjustable Butt stock
    Remington Akita Adjustable Stock with Neoprene Cheekrest - Advanced Technology International

    Synthetic Police style ribbed foregrip (painted Dk Brown to match the Butt stock

    Magazine extension aluminum (2 or 3 rd depending on how long of barrel I decide on)

    The gun will have a 170-200 lumen LED flashlight mounted on the left side of the barrel/mag ext. in such a way it is easy to hold the foregrip and use my thumb to hit the flashlight butt end switch.

    No speedloader no extra rounds mounted on it etc.

    This will be a gun that is kept within reach of our bed. It will be stored in a hidden compartment (for lack of a more accurate way of discribing where it will be kept)

    In an attempt to keep the gun as compact and easy to manuver as possible should I give up that extra round and build it with a 18.5" barrel and a +2rd mag ext. Or should I pack as much ammo as possible and go with a 20" barrel and +3rd mag ext?

    Our house has no hallways to worry about having to turn around in though we do have a staircase. That is enclosed on both sides for the upper half.
     
  2. PinkhamR

    PinkhamR Altus, Oklahoma MSgt, USAF (Retired)-FFL Lifetime Supporter

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    Shorter the better ,,,,,, 1 round should not make that big of a difference .... JMO (Yes, mine is 18 1/2") ... ;)
     
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  3. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Shorter in the house...

    Why?

    Less to grab on to by the bag guy and bigger spread from the bullets.

    Tacticalshotgun1-Lead.jpg

    My suggestion is to try to search around your house with something that is that long (36"). If you plan on waiting down a hallway, on top of a stairwell or just point it at a door in your bedroom then by all means, deck that sucker out with a +2. Otherwise it's overkill and you should probably be investing in a pistol for home defense versus a shotgun. After all, you don't want to be wrestling around with the bad guy in a dark room for who has control of the boom stick do you?

    boomstick_1606.jpg
     
  4. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Great photo! I like the Wilson Combat polo shirt too! I realize this photo is "staged" for a gun rag or something else. But it is painfully obvious she has never trained in any force on force scenario based situations and/or had any training on "Tactics within Enclosed or Confining Structures" i.e. buildings/doorways etc. Either that or she has invested way too many hours training on a square range with instructors not coaching her on how to operate or work within an enclosed structure. Either than (and most likely) the photographer asked her to pose the shot (photo) like she is. But even if asked to pose in the enfilade like she is if she knew better she'd make some adjustments that would give her a greater tactical advantage and it would be obvious in the photo she knew what she was doing. Regardless it is a great photo nevertheless in spite of the poor use of tactics.

    There is always going to be risk of grappling over any firearm in a low light & enclosed structure situation regardless if there is a handgun or shotgun being used by the defender. Of the two choices of tools listed (handgun or shotgun) no one wants to fight over a gun at any time - ever! However of the two choices one is of a greater liability to the home defender if grabbed by a VCA and the other becomes "a gift". Yes that's right if someone grabs for one of these two choices which are being kicked around (handgun or shotgun) they've just presented you with a gift!!!! (metaphorically speaking of course).

    Without competent training neither option is good and both as stated eariler are liablities. With training one will learn very quickly how you can turn a gun grab around to your advantage...one tool choice requiring more training and practice and the other tool choice not as much. And of these two options (handgun or shotgun) one is more efficient and easier to turn around as a tactical advantage while the other, while possible, requires a lot more training and practice.

    Of course, all of this is implying that evading, escaping, and/or avoiding a violent deadly force confrontation even inside one's own home is going to be our best option.

    Tacticalshotgun1-Lead.jpg
     
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  5. Nutty4Guns

    Nutty4Guns Portland ADHD Superstar

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    This is one instance in life where shorter is better than longer.;)
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    LOL the last thing I need is to invest in another handgun suited to personal/home defense. I already have 5 of them.
     
  7. CuddlyBear

    CuddlyBear Snohomish County New Member

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    I have a 20" 870. It doesn't have the three round extension yet but it will. IMO, the extra 1.5" is worth an extra round, especially in a weapon without much capacity in the first place. You're going to have an adjustable stock anyway, just move it in one setting and you're back to the same overall length of the shorter-barreled gun.
     
  8. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Actually I plan on keeping the shotty at a 12 3/8" pull the shortest the adjustable stock allows. So there really isn't an inch and a half to find.
     
  9. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Barrel length is second to rounds available.
    if the magazine extension is a little longer than the barrel,that isn't a big deal.
    I mean,are you really worried about the tube looking silly on your home defense weapon?

    Really,5 rounds of 12 ga anything will make a bad guy question why he entered your house,in the first place.
    Don't believe there will be a significant difference in spread,at household distances,on most shot options.
    A guy did a comparison on different size shots and brands,there of,and showed that some brands spread way faster than others.Using the same size shot,BTW
    Y...Shotguns.....MMV so you need to pattern different loads and brands with your shot gun.
     
  10. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A 2 round scattergun tech extension added enough weight to the muzzle when loaded to noticeably change the balance point on a formerly fairly balanced shotgun. I wouldn't want another ounce++ out that far.
     
  11. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The reason for choosing between an 18.5 and 20" barrel is weight (less weight = speed in maneuver and less space required for maneuver) so having a short barrel and a longer extension tube would negate the advantage of the short barrel. Also a shorter barrel will allow the shot cup to open sooner and the shot to spread more (how ever small that amount may be)

    Its becoming clear to me that for an in house shotgun running the minimum legal lenght barrel +.5" to be safe. Has a tactical advantage greater then having an 8th round in the magazine.

    Walking down a street full of zombies I see a completely different set of requirements. Then a house with a Stair case only 31" wide for most of its lenght. No door way in my house is wider then 30" through the opening.
     
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  12. Harrytop

    Harrytop Tangent Active Member

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    Something like Krav Maga self defense training or other hand to hand is your best way to stack the deck in your favor. Your mind set changes with training. Starting with a shotgun to hunker down and wait for back-up or are you going to clear your own house, where are the kids if you have any?
     
  13. Sun195

    Sun195 Pugetropolis, WA Well-Known Member

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    I've had both a 20" barrel (rifle sights, open choke) and 18.5" (bead sight) on my 870 (not with extended magazine, however). I like the way it handles with the 18.5" much better, so that's what I have on there now.
     
  14. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The kids are in their own homes one is 30 miles away and she and her husband are well armed both packing .40's The other my son is in San Diego or San Clemete Is. the US NAVY and well armed in his own apt with his .45.

    We do have the grand daughters overnight fairly often. They are also in a 2nd floor bedroom at night. And they are out of the line of fire behind multiple walls.

    At 55 and 270lbs I'm well past any fancy self defense and would most likely just rely on a life time of experiance. Should hand to hand combat occure I'll have no problem using the shotgun like a baseball bat.

    I grew up in a very rough country school in fights every week. I wrestled in high school, I took self defense in college, I was in the military, I've been in fist fights as an adult, I seriously doubt you could change my mind set.
     
  15. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I own both lengths but I favor the longer bbl. this works for me for several reasons, I am tall and strong. I was well trained in the army in bayonet fighting and I practice it often (using exercise DVD's that involve training with a bar type weight) using a shotgun to execute parrys, thrusts, and butt strokes. I use the heavy hardwood buttstock with a solid hard buttplate and no pistol grips to facilitate thrusts and buttstrokes. I believe that this will work for me, I've never had to try it and hope I never have to! Also, I hope Lilly my 135lb Bull Mastif will jump on in! By the way, the idea is to use a quick hard thrust to the throat with the muzzle.
     
  16. Simonpie

    Simonpie Portland Active Member

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    The short barrel works better when descending stairs...

    Stairs.jpg

    Stairs.jpg
     
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  17. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    18.5" period. Why go for that extra length?
    A few extra rounds at best? If you couldnt stop the threat or scare them off with 5, then you should transition to something else. Though over penetration may be an issue, a quick transition to a 16 round 9mm pistol with a blinging tac-light ought to do it.
     
  18. theguncrank

    theguncrank Columbia County Active Member

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    I have an old 870 Wingmaster Riot. It sports a 20" barrel with Remington +3 extension, a Meprolight bead and the original old school wood police stock. I find it fits, feels and shoots better than the 18.5" synthetic stocked guns I have tried (of course, Wingmaster vs. Express is another poll LOL!) That's my preference, and I'm sticking to it.
     
  19. powersbj

    powersbj Seattle Area Active Member

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    I have no intention of sweeping my house, I am more than happy to call the police and give them the pleasure while I sit in my room with the 12ga pointed down the hall. I can cover the one way into the bedroom area of my house and have the chimney behind the hall wall as a great backstop. So for me I would go with the 20in and mag extension, a 60% increase in ammo is a big deal with a shotty... IMHO, of course I have never shot a 12ga at anything but paper and clay so what do I know :D.
     
  20. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    the 18.5" with a 2rd extention will hold a total of 7+1 rounds the 20" with a 3 rd extention will hold 8+1 rds in my calculator thats a 12.5% increase in ammo. HOW ON EARTH do you get 60%