Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

OCed all Weekend NO Problem... OCed today got kicked out

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by glockguy, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    60
    Well I OCed all Weekend into walmart (In Lebanon) carls JR Taco bell and a few other lil stores in Albany, got a few funny looks but that's it... Then Today I went to Bi mart in Albany and the guy says to me. If you had a jacket or something over that, it would be ok, but we cant allow it like that. I told him Oregon Law permits Open carry, but he just said to many people get concerned and would get scared.. he told me to take it off and come back in.. I simply told him I was done and Id go to the other bi marts in Corvallis that I knew were OC Friendly.. has Anyone had this kinda response from a Bi Mart? and do you know what there Policy really is? I know walmarts is to follow state law.

    But on a brighter note bimart did have 250 round packs of .40 i think i saw 2 boxes

    I also Wrote them this email

    To whom is may concern:

    My name is Wesley Slusser, I was recently shopping in one of your Stores (your Albany location) and I was Open carrying my firearm. I was told by one of your employees (he was very nice and considerate) to remove my firearm and to please put it in my car and then return to finish my shopping. I am curious as to what your policy is regarding this Issue, Open carry, as it is legal to do so the state of Oregon.

    Thank you for you time on this matter and I look forward to hearing from you.


    sincerely



    Wesley Slusser
     
  2. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    glockguy, your understanding, and thus your letter, is wrong. It is legal to open carry in public places. A business is private property; a representative of that property (for a business, an employee; for a residence, a tenant) can ask you to not enter their building with a firearm. If you refuse, you can rightfully be arrested for trespassing (possibly more if you're acting crazy).

    ORS 166.173 (Ctrl-F to find 166.173)
    166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places.
    (1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.
    (2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:
    (a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.
    (b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.
    (c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.
    (d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370. [1995 s.s. c.1 §4; 1999 c.782 §8]​

    CHL is exempt by (2)(c).
    Cities and counties can further restrict open carry by (1).

    ORS 161.015 for public places definition (Ctrl-F to find 161.015)
    161.015 General definitions
    (10) “Public place” means a place to which the general public has access and includes, but is not limited to, hallways, lobbies and other parts of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence, and highways, streets, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds and premises used in connection with public passenger transportation. [1971 c.743 §3; 1973 c.139 §1; 1979 c.656 §3; 1991 c.67 §33; 1993 c.625 §4; 1995 c.651 §5]
    ORS 166.360 (Ctrl-F to find 166.360)
    166.360 Definitions for ORS 166.360 to 166.380. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires otherwise:
    (4) “Public building” means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.
     
  3. wayoutwest

    wayoutwest Polk County, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    67
    Add to the above, if you are asked to leave from the private property and do not

     
  4. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1
    It is sometimes best to win a battle with understanding. Because we have a legal right to OC in public doesn't always mean that we should. It too often can be interpreted by non-gun owners as bullying or egotistical. I OC on occasion but I don't make it an issue, and I certainly don't OC if it puts people on edge. Conceal it, save the OC for the rural areas that have a better understanding. We will win by changing hearts one person at a time.
     
  5. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    60
    Im aware Of that. But also Stores Such as Walmart have also Kicked out People and Walmart's policy is to follow state law. Which means Open carry is legal, and the manager at the walmart in Lebanon told me that this weekend. I know its privite property thats why i hardly ever oc cause im afraid i'll get kicked out. I wasn't rude i just said thank you. and left. I wrote that letter because as we all know people tell you a policy exists when it really doesn't.. so I wrote that letter to ask. I will never OC in there again even if i get a reply back saying it is ok. Im just curious.
     
  6. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1
    Open Carry is not a state law permitting OC on private property in which BiMart or any other business is considered. They are not obligated to allow it, neither are any other places of business, private residences, or even places of worship. Those businesses can allow or disallow even concealed carry if they choose to, same goes for ball stadiums and shopping malls. OC only applies to public places and even that can be denied by city or county ordinances. They can prevent or ask you to leave which by state law is legal. Don't make it an issue, it isn't. Hide it and no one will be the wiser.
     
  7. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    60
    Yea yea.... I guess Im not telling you the correct way. and I dunno how to word it. But Yea I understand and agree with you.. they do have the right to kick you out.. I was not disputing it. but is it not ok to email them and ask then what their policy is regarding it?
     
  8. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1
    No one is asking anyone to hide under a rock or not access their rights. Just the simple fact that our rights of OC ends at their property line. They have rights too. Just remember that when you send a letter or email. They don't have to allow OC or even concealed carry, it is not our right, it's theirs. OC is a silly issue to press, no one is denying the right as the law is written. If you want to write a letter, try to your state rep to change the law. If for some reason you feel the need to open carry to show how you are demonstrating your rights, feel free. It is your right just as it is my right to state that OC is a silly useless argument, one born of an ego and not of anything else. Why not just post a big sign in your yard telling everyone you own guns?
     
  9. wakeadrian

    wakeadrian Beaverton Member

    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    10
    Glockguy, I completely see what you are saying and I'll be curious as to how Bi-Mart handles the situation to find out what their policy really is. Keep us updated! :)
    I guess if they reply back with a rude response, maybe that would be the time to explain that you understand the law about private property and that you were just wondering what the policy is, not to dispute it.
     
  10. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    60
    I doubt they will reply back I couldn't find a direct email to any certian person.. (feel free to find me one and I'll resend the letter to them) Soo I sent it to comments@bimart.com or something like that
     
  11. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    "I am curious as to what your policy is regarding this Issue, Open carry, as it is legal to do so the state of Oregon."

    This statement assumes 2 things:
    1) Manager knows what open carry means
    2) They know state law, and thus will agree with what you say is legal

    You're better off citing state law, then asking why they are against it in their store. You also demonstrate knowledge by stating that you understand their business is private property and they can make whatever request they want. By not stating this, you appear to think that "state open carry law = same in a business". Leave nothing to chance and spell it all out for people. You come across as more knowledgeable, and thus more believeable. Then again, a lot of people attempt this and are only trying to blow smoke up your <radio edit>.
     
  12. KENOC

    KENOC Portland area Member

    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    8
    Open carry in public is a right and is legal. Farting continuously in a packed movie theatre is also a right and is legal. I fail to see the advantage of doing either. Conceal the gun and you take away the advantage the bad guy has and don't freak non-gun people out. Conceal carry seems a win-win for you and the public, only the bad guy can lose. Open carry seems like lose-lose for everyone EXCEPT the bad guy. Just because it is a right does not mean it is the best thing to do. Out in the woods..sure. In the city and it a store..pointless.
     
  13. wakeadrian

    wakeadrian Beaverton Member

    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    10
    I think this has been brought up and covered in several other threads that started out as simple OC question/discussion threads. I think it's a great debate for people to have, but it's getting a little silly to keep changing the original thread topics. Maybe start a thread dedicated to this subject? :) Or there might be one already to read through/revamp the discussion on.
     
  14. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    132
    People need to be better educated and experienced. People need to see that just because there is a gun, doesn't mean there is danger. Just because this person owns a gun, doesn't mean this person is dangerous.

    If guns are kept so hush-hush, it is that much easier for them to disappear. I see your standpoint, but your attitude is not welcome.
     
  15. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1
    I welcome his attitude. Ego drives the OC debate. The general public has NOT be favorable to OC for many many years. And the OP was complaining about his "right" to carry in the store, which is untrue. There is no right to carry on private property in Oregon unless one owns that property. Make it an issue and the gun owner will lose, no doubt about it. The general populace whether we agree with it or not does not approve of OC. Instead of shoving it down their throats and losing what little we have, perhaps we need to show some courtesy. But I realize that a large part of American gun owners have little respect or courtesy for others. We toss it all out because we have rights. Why not work positively for a cause rather than attack. We have a bad rep already, why feed it with nonsense? I have had a CHL in Oregon since they became readily available in the early 90's. Just conceal it away and go on about your business. If one is constantly feeling the need to demonstrate that he is a big boy with a gun, perhaps he really not ready for that responsibility. The BiMart manager acted with dignity explaining you their position at the store. Zombie Assassin also gave a very good explanation on what is needed to be an effective and positive argument. In your face politics, whether it be from the right, the left, gays, straight, race, religion, or any other ism group is distasteful and shows little regard for others. Selfish is the word that describes the attitudes that are so pervasive in today's society.
     
  16. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    132
    In Your Face politics is the only thing that gets anywhere.
     
  17. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1
    I disagree. It may work short term but it does not change hearts and minds. But we as Americans don't have the patience in this "grab it when you can society". Carry OC, why the need all of a sudden to do such things is beyond me. 18 years of concealed carry has done me fine, brought others into the fold, and is less obtrusive. But my ego doesn't need the stroking that perhaps others do. I find it sad that what I and others have done in the last two decades can so easily be unhinged not by the antis, but those who feel the need to "kick it up another notch", who never lived in an Oregon where CHL was only for the few.
     
  18. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes Received:
    132
    I dunno, man. The American Revolution was pretty "in your face". Boston Tea Party, too. Seems to have changed hearts and minds at least SOMEWHERE.

    I don't open carry in stores. I do open carry from time to time, though. It's generally more comfortable, and I just throw on a long shirt or jacket when I'm heading indoors. Your comments are indicating that myself and anyone else who chooses to open carry are just "Stroking our Ego's".

    Why someone would need to rag on people on an internet forum to make themselves feel superior is beyond me. But my ego doesn't need stroking that perhaps those others do.

    It would be interesting, Ikona, to see exactly what gets accomplished by your attitude towards fellow gun owners, who choose to open carry, vs a guy who open carries, and was respectful when asked to leave.
     
  19. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    Likes Received:
    60
    Personally when I OC I do it cause either I have nothing to cover my gun cause i was not planning to actually go anywhere. And im sure as heck not gonna leave my gun in my vehicle. Or Its Soo hot out that wearing anything that would cover it would be very uncomfortable.

    The Police here in Albany are very friendly and welcome OC. I actually was with my friend this past weekend in Fredmyers getting some ice and there was an off duty cop checking out in front of us and he said nothing about it, except looked at it, and said nice piece.

    I believe that some people just use people who open carry as an excuse to have something to complain about.. Never once have i ever had a customer in a store freak out or comment negative on me OCing. Only people who work there say i MAY "frighten" the customers.

    If you dress like a decent person you wont get harassed. If you dress like a slob. Yes your gonna get harassed more.

    Some People choose to OC some conceal. Its a choice yes one may be smarter then the other, but either way its still legal. if you get kicked out you get kicked out. then you'll know for next time.
     
  20. ikona

    ikona west of pdx Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    1

    First, lets not confuse OC with the American Revelution or the Boston Tea Party. And the majority of arguments that have been played have concerned ego's and yelling "IT'S MY RIGHT", look it up. This forum and op is for the free exchange of ideas and opinions, I am simply offering mine. If one does not want opinions then why post in the first place. And as far as the comment
    I asked the very same thing. The whole OC demand is a new novelty, one which my guess is driven by many who have just obtained permits in the last several years. Having spent the majority of my life in Oregon and living as an adult during the time that CHL's were regulary denied, when the state changed the laws to a shall issue, it was because of slow and tedious work behind the scenes, not an "in your face" mentality. I am more interested in what
    and how it could affect the debate and battle of maintaining gun rights that we have at this time. Being respectful to the general public, being good ambassadors of the the gun community will achieve far more progress than showing you have a gun. Again, the initial op shows the simple lack of understanding state laws, by implying that it is permissible to open carry on private property and if one does not allow it then they are not in compliance with the state law. This is an open forum, to discuss issues that affect all gun owners. I happen to be on the side of long time CHL owners who don't see the reasoning behind forcing an issue that isn't a problem. Open carry is fine in rural areas but carries far more problems with the general public in metro areas. Forcing issues without understanding the consequences that could result in becoming detrimental to the "whole" cause of gun rights. Being asked to leave by a nervous Nelly in a store accomplishes nothing except bad publicity overall. Cover them and there is no problem at all.

    wakejoe seems to think that he can tell us who disagree:

    Again, we gain nothing if we do not discuss all sides to an issue and share opinions. I may disagree with other's opinions but that is the right I have, same as those who disagree with my opinions.