Obama Nominates Rabid Anti-gunner to Head the ATF

[KomradRazvan]

Gotta admit there's a bit of a double standard. For example, Ronald Reagan actually did by far more to infringe upon gun rights than did Obama. Yet Obama is referred to as the most anti-gun president that has ever been and plenty of people will allege Reagan was pro-gun. Reagan gave lip service to the 2nd amendment, but in practice was often a strong opponent of gun rights.

That's something I will never understand about either Republicans or Democrats... or people in general I guess. How is that they're so willing to vehemently drag someone through the mud for doing or saying something, while completely dismissing it when someone of their own affiliation does the exact same thing. It almost seems like that Orwellian double-think... you know... the idea that two mutually exclusive, contradicting notions can be equally true at the same time. Frankly, when I see it happen, it's hard to take the individual's opinion seriously because it goes to show they're not really capable of free thought.

I totally agree with you.

 

[Trlsmn]

Infact, if you really want to get into it, the whole M1 garand issue is a lose/lose for him. If he had bought them, he would be criticized for spending money we dont have on guns we dont really "need", but rather that some people just "want." He didn't go through with the buyback, so now he is getting criticized by you folks because you want a piece of American history. I'm not sure about this, but I do believe that those garands do qualify as sporting-style rifles, and therefore you could probably find out who has them, and see if you can buy them from them, and not have it be a govt buy back. Don't know if you would have the money to buy all those, but I'm just sayin.

Epic fail!

-1 more for KomradRazvan




I'll leave that clueless statement for another member to show you where that whole line of ahem "reasoning" is in error. I'm sure a reasonable member will understand where that whole statement went wrong from the first sentence and just went downhill with conjecture based on a false premise.

Normally I would correct you but I'd rather let others get the laugh, maybe if you are lucky they will tell you why we are laughing at you and not with you.

More of your empty statements without backing. Whatever you say trlsmn. Stay in your own little world. I guess you're happy there. Afterall, ignorance is bliss.

Indeed it is!

 

[KomradRazvan]

Indeed it is!

i'll take your word for it.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Okay Komrad, let's turn this around. You seem to think this prez's appointments are okee-doke regarding guns, ownership and the 2ndA, so you get to explain the rationale for this appointment given that Andrew F. Traver:

As special agent in charge of Chicago's ATF field division, Traver had taken the lead in calling for a ban on semiautomatic firearms.

And Chicago, of course, has been the epicenter of anti-gun government activism. It is not surprising that Traver has also been active in the virulently anti-gun International Association of Chiefs of Police, which has worked to empower Handgun Control-type activists and has commissioned panels to:

* support one-gun-a-month and lock-up-your-safety laws, as well as "ballistic fingerprinting" files on all firearms;

* espouse an "effective" ban on .50-caliber firearms, and a redefinition of "armor-piercing" ammunition that could effectively ban handgun use;

* mandate gun-destruction policies for law enforcement and enhanced funding to go after guns;

* prohibit all private gun sales and make "prohibited persons" out of a much wider variety of persons committing simple misdemeanors;

* back a repeal of the Tiahrt amendment; and,

* allow federal health and safety oversight of the firearms industry (through agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Food and Drug Administration).

Please note the last policy he advocates. And remember that the dotgov, on the federal level now has considerable sway over healthcare and health insurance.

Most of us see this as a continuance of Chicago political cronyism.
Most of us recognize his policies as impotent and ineffective with regard to crime/violence reduction, as evidenced by Chicago's crime/violence rate.
Most of us see this as the foundation for severe curtailment of gun rights for law abiding citizens, ala Chicago, yet you seem to want us all to ignore his record and advocacy.
The GOA sees this man as downright dangerous with regard to gun ownership.
Why are we all wrong?

So Komrad, I challenge you. Defend this appointment to all the gun owners/advocates here. You like the prez, you apparently like this appointment,...
Defend it. Explain it to all us "blissfully ignorant" types.

For that matter, any of you progressive types that believe in "the one" are free to take up this challenge,...

What makes this man the best available person to run the agency that DICTATES gun policy in the U.S?!?

 

[wyattburp]

The guys in Chicago need to move to Europe, and anyone else that doesn't like the principals our nation was found on. Firearms are part of those principals.

OT: And to think Komrad is "going into law enforcement"...Good thing I don't live in Portland...It actually fits, I've met a lot of Portland police that like guns but are clearly anti-gun (but don't know it). You'll be in great company.

 

[Trlsmn]

The guys in Chicago need to move to Europe, and anyone else that doesn't like the principals our nation was found on. Firearms are part of those principals.

OT: And to think Komrad is "going into law enforcement"...Good thing I don't live in Portland...It actually fits, I've met a lot of Portland police that like guns but are clearly anti-gun (but don't know it). You'll be in great company.

Well there's "security" and there's law enforcement.

 

[VW_Factor]

What this thread has turned into..



Why again exactly do you need to have an e-penis contest in this thread?

 

[Scott]

Actual freedom to whom? The American people? I don't think so. Who bailed out Goldman, AIG, GM, Chrysler, B of A? Chase? and there are so many more not listed. Guess what? Obama did that and was that for the American people? If it was it did not me. Democrats loved Fannie and Freddie, Dodd filled his pockects. What freedoms did you get. I have higher rates now and those 2% just got huge bonuses after they were paid millions. Must be nice. The unions made millions in the deals with auto companies as they were paid before stockholders which is illegal by the way. And on more question who paid the most to Obama's campaign? Hint, it was not the American people who you claim the dems or trying to free.

 

[Scott]

This is how Obama feels about gang bangers. I laughed when I read this.

•Voted against making gang members eligible for the death penalty if they kill someone to help their gang.

Damn, I wish I could get support like that for just trying to defend myself. I did not make that up either.

Here is the link to a left wing station who printed that.

Obama Record May Be Gold Mine For Critics - CBS News

 

[Trlsmn]

Infact, if you really want to get into it, the whole M1 garand issue is a lose/lose for him. If he had bought them, he would be criticized for spending money we dont have on guns we dont really "need", but rather that some people just "want." He didn't go through with the buyback, so now he is getting criticized by you folks because you want a piece of American history.

OK time to show you the error of your ways and why you are just babbling conjecture based on a false premise.

These Garands aren't being bought back by Obama or the US government nor even the CMP, they are being bought by private firearm importing companies such as CAI

I'm not sure about this, but I do believe that those garands do qualify as sporting-style rifles, and therefore you could probably find out who has them, and see if you can buy them from them, and not have it be a govt buy back. Don't know if you would have the money to buy all those, but I'm just sayin.

More nonsense and proof you have no clue what you're talking about. The importers/buyers are there ready and waiting to buy and import the Garands but Obama has in essence banned them from being imported, I know you are not capable of understanding or admitting this but others are.

-1 many KomradRazvan

By all means, go ahead and write a 10,000 word essay to distract from the simple fact that you are wrong!

 

[Scott]

Can you please provide me with one example Obama or his administration has done since they are in power that his curtailed your firearms freedom? I would like just 1 example. Please?

Can you please provide me with one example Obama or his administration has done to ensure are firearms freedom? I would just like 1 example as well. Show me 5 examples I will buy you a case of beer or soda of your choice.

 

[KomradRazvan]

Okay Komrad, let's turn this around. You seem to think this prez's appointments are okee-doke regarding guns, ownership and the 2ndA, so you get to explain the rationale for this appointment given that Andrew F. Traver:


Please note the last policy he advocates. And remember that the dotgov, on the federal level now has considerable sway over healthcare and health insurance.

Most of us see this as a continuance of Chicago political cronyism.
Most of us recognize his policies as impotent and ineffective with regard to crime/violence reduction, as evidenced by Chicago's crime/violence rate.
Most of us see this as the foundation for severe curtailment of gun rights for law abiding citizens, ala Chicago, yet you seem to want us all to ignore his record and advocacy.
The GOA sees this man as downright dangerous with regard to gun ownership.
Why are we all wrong?

So Komrad, I challenge you. Defend this appointment to all the gun owners/advocates here. You like the prez, you apparently like this appointment,...
Defend it. Explain it to all us "blissfully ignorant" types.

For that matter, any of you progressive types that believe in "the one" are free to take up this challenge,...

What makes this man the best available person to run the agency that DICTATES gun policy in the U.S?!?

Well first of all, i am not defending the appointment. I am arguing against the misinformation that Obama or his administration as president has done something to curtail our firearm freedoms. I never said the appointment was good. I didn't say it was bad either. I dont think the person appointed was the appropriate person for the job... but so far, nothing has been done to limit our firearm freedoms. An appointment does not affect us until the appointee does something. Sorry, but that's a fact of logic.

 

[KomradRazvan]

The guys in Chicago need to move to Europe, and anyone else that doesn't like the principals our nation was found on. Firearms are part of those principals.

I agree with this statement more than 100%. It's one of the reasons i love this country.

OT: And to think Komrad is "going into law enforcement"...Good thing I don't live in Portland...It actually fits, I've met a lot of Portland police that like guns but are clearly anti-gun (but don't know it). You'll be in great company.

I'm not going for local LE. I'm shootin for the national or international community. I am not anti-gun. I am Pro-Gun, and Pro-Second ammendment. What i am anti on is anti-stupidity, and anti-making false accusations and spreading fear among the populace, which helps keep gun/ammo prices up.

 

[KomradRazvan]

Well there's "security" and there's law enforcement.

my security job is a chill job that i have while going to school. it affords me the flexibility to be a full time student and work full time as well.

 

[KomradRazvan]

Actual freedom to whom? The American people? I don't think so. Who bailed out Goldman, AIG, GM, Chrysler, B of A? Chase? and there are so many more not listed. Guess what? Obama did that and was that for the American people? If it was it did not me. Democrats loved Fannie and Freddie, Dodd filled his pockects. What freedoms did you get. I have higher rates now and those 2% just got huge bonuses after they were paid millions. Must be nice. The unions made millions in the deals with auto companies as they were paid before stockholders which is illegal by the way. And on more question who paid the most to Obama's campaign? Hint, it was not the American people who you claim the dems or trying to free.

well you quoted me, and missed a few key words... like where i said "MOST democrats" not "ALL democrats". And if you want to bring in the issue of bailouts, both parties voted that, just as both parties voted for the $700 billion bailout of wall street that was passed a house vote 263-171 and then Bush immediately signed into law. But we digress. The issue discussed at hand is not the economical strategies (and i agree with you, in a truly capitalist economy, no one should have been bailed out. Both the Bush and Obama bailouts were BS and should never have occured), but rather the issue of actions the Obama Presidency has taken that has affected our 2nd ammendment rights.

 

[Karma]

Komrad, I myself can't point to anything other than the M1 thing that Obama has done to step on our firearms freedom specifically. I would point out that the framework is being put in place. This appointment shows his intentions. We have always known from his voting record as a Senator what his thoughts on the 2nd amendment is, we are just waiting for it to happen.

Is it your position that you believe he has no intentions on coming after the 2nd amendment?

 

[KomradRazvan]

More nonsense and proof you have no clue what you're talking about. The importers/buyers are there ready and waiting to buy and import the Garands but Obama has in essence banned them from being imported, I know you are not capable of understanding or admitting this but others are.

Thats why i said "I'm not sure about this". lol. If you're going to quote me, make sure you read the quote before responding to it.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Well first of all, i am not defending the appointment. I am arguing against the misinformation that Obama or his administration as president has done something to curtail our firearm freedoms. I never said the appointment was good. I didn't say it was bad either. I dont think the person appointed was the appropriate person for the job... but so far, nothing has been done to limit our firearm freedoms. An appointment does not affect us until the appointee does something. Sorry, but that's a fact of logic.

So you are going to wait until executive orders are signed, or this guy decides that the ATF has a "duty" to step on our constitutional rights before you will oppose him?? Then what, wait for the NRA or the GOA to take him to court?

Gee that's so logical,... Wait for the appointee to do something wrong.
No wonder you lefties vote in the clowns you do. In your mind they can do no wrong,...
Until they've already done it and it's too late.
HEY!! Komrad WAKEUP!! That's why we have Senate confirmation hearings!!
So the nominee's suitability for the job can be judged beforehand.
If the guy was really suitable, Obama wouldn't be trying to push him through during the lame duck session,...

Are you sure you are a gun owner/advocate?? You don't sound like one.

 

[KomradRazvan]

Can you please provide me with one example Obama or his administration has done to ensure are firearms freedom? I would just like 1 example as well. Show me 5 examples I will buy you a case of beer or soda of your choice.

Ofcourse I can, sir. And i won't ask you to wager anything for it, or beat around the bush, or post links to sound effectso on youtube. Although, due to lack of time i have in doing extensive research at the moment, since i'm busy studying for final exams, I can only provide you with 1 example that comes to mind. In May of 2009, Obama signed a bill that permits licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks and wildlife refuges as long as state law allows it. The new law, which took effect in February, replaced rules from the Reagan administration that generally required that guns in national parks be locked or stored in a glove compartment or trunk.

Don't believe me. Google it.

If you can provide me with one example of something that President Obama has done that actually limits your gun rights, that would be great. If you can show me 5 examples, i will buy a case of beer or soda of your choice as well.

 

[Jamie6.5]

And still no one has come forward to defend his appointment with any argument in favor that is coherent or sensible,... You're just willing to accept him cuz "the one" says so.

Is that crickets I hear??

I better not hear the word "sheeple" out of any of you lefties.