NWFA classifieds-negative feedback

[Waterdawg]

I'd like to know if I'm out of line ?

If someone commits to selling or buying something than backs out or just ghost's "you".
to me that's good reason to leave negative feedback correct ?

Am I out of line by feeling others should know how these individuals have conducted/lack of business via negative feedback ?

Seems to me once a deal has been made via NWFA the seller should mark the ad "SPF" (sold pending funds)
Might be a good idea to make this a requirement ... ?

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[JedB]

I'd like to know if I'm out of line ?

If someone commits to selling or buying something than backs out or just ghost's "you".
to me that's good reason to leave negative feedback correct ?

Am I out of line by feeling others should know how these individuals have conducted/lack of business via negative feedback ?

Seems to me once a deal has been made via NWFA the seller should mark the ad "SPF" (sold pending funds)
Might be a good idea to make this a requirement ... ?

I understand your point of view.
Others may operate differently.

For some, it's first cash in hand, regardless of interest by other parties. It sounds like that's what happened in your circumstance. While you can be miffed at the seller, technically there was no actual deal. Implied by the other, and inferred by you, but ultimately no deal, as nothing changed hands.

If you feel it's warranted, by all means, leave feedback.
For me, I only leave negative feedback if something is intentionally hidden from inspection. Fortunately, i've not had to leave any with any members here. Sorry you've had a different experience.

 

[a6m5]

I also think ghosting is a no-no. Backing out of deal is acceptable to me, as long as you tell me why & don't leave me hanging.

 

[Waterdawg]

So lets say we come up with a time to meet and I as the buyer say that I'm 30mins late and the other party gets pissed and tells me NVM, does that mean I should get bad feedback? Or should I leave negative feedback for the seller being difficult?

I'm sorry bur I had to back out if deals before, never because I just didn't want to do the deal or changed my mind but because of other reasons usually involving financial burden.

I'm sure you let the other part know and life went on...no big deal.

 

[RevBadger]

I guess it all depends on the circumstances.

Take, for instance, the recent snow. I had a purchase, worked with the seller, had cash, and was ready to take a 2ish hour drive. Had a time and an appointment at his FFL. Then, the great snow-pacalypse of 2021 hit.

So I PM the seller and let him know that I can't make the deal, but we can reschedule after the great thaw. He then turns around and sold it locally. But, at least he let me know. Am I sad? sure. Am I mad? Not even a little. Especially not enough to leave a negative review.

Now if I made that 2 hour drive and he didn't let me know previously that he sold it, I would have been mad. Or if I made the trip, and he didn't show up, I would be mad.

But that's where communication comes in.

 

[DangerDog]

I give negative feedback for that. Folks need to know who they're dealin with.

 

[Paolung]

Elements of a contract include:

Offer - I'll buy it for X.
Consideration - I get gun, you get cash... value exchange.
Acceptance - you agree to my offer to buy it for X.
Mutuality - This means the parties understood and agreed to the basic substance and terms of the contract.

There's no "once the money changes hands" unless that's agreed upon up front. A legal contract is formed once the above elements are satisfied, regardless of one's personal preferences or quirks.

Edit: Of course, voluntary restrictions and changes to the contract are part and parcel of deals as well, such as agreeing to back out of the contract (perhaps a person had an emergency arise). The key here is being considerate of the other person and staying in communication. Most folks are reasonable as long as you stay in contact. It's when you start "ghosting" or playing games behind the scenes (arranging other deals in an underhanded manner without being up front, for example) that people tend to get ticked off - and rightly so, IMO.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

As long as they communicate 24 hours in advance (not the day of) Im ok with someone backing out of a deal IF they communicate it. However ghosting is unacceptable.

They NEED to communicate whats going on and with some notice unless its an emergency: work/family/health related.
Life happens, I get it. However, if it is the day of; I square time away specifically for said meet up.. so that'll irk me.
Communication is key.

 

[Gunwild]

What gets me is when people agree to buy an item bail out at last min because they don't have the funds. Im talking in general not so much about the site. I understand that something financially straining may have happened but if you dont have the cash or think you may not have it when time comes to pay up then just window shop as easy as that.

 

[Paolung]

As long as they communicate 24 hours in advance (not the day of) Im ok with someone backing out of a deal IF they communicate it. However ghosting is unacceptable.

They NEED to communicate whats going on and with some notice unless its an emergency: work/family/health related.
Life happens, I get it. However, if it is the day of; I square time away specifically for said meet up.. so that'll irk me.
Communication is key.

Right. Be considerate, and don't abuse people's goodwill.

What gets me is when people agree to buy an item bail out at last min because they don't have the funds. Im talking in general not so much about the site. I understand that something financially straining may have happened but if you dont have the cash and commit to buying something then just window shop as easy as that.

Agreed. The overarching theme is that some sort of binding agreement is made, and expectations are set. When people are inconsiderate of others and do not honor that agreement or expectation that was mutually set, problems happen.

It can be from the buyer side (your example above of not offering in good faith) or the seller side (agreeing to sell and then ghosting or selling to someone else who came later without regard for the original buyer with whom the agreement was made).

 

[Gunwild]

Right. Be considerate, and don't abuse people's goodwill.



Agreed. The overarching theme is that some sort of binding agreement is made, and expectations are set. When people are inconsiderate of others and do not honor that agreement or expectation that was mutually set, problems happen.

It can be from the buyer side (your example above of not offering in good faith) or the seller side (agreeing to sell and then ghosting or selling to someone else who came later without regard for the original buyer with whom the agreement was made).

That's what it is! You both make an agreement and like @ZA_Survivalist said I dont mind too much if you bail out day before we meet but you need to let me know. Not when I call or message that I have arrived to meet then you say oh blah blah not oh can we meet a little later but flat out bail come on man

Also don't take down your post just put SPF until the deal goes down or if on here funds are received. Unless it is someone you have prior experience with or has good feedback.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I don't think I'll be pursuing feedback in either direction on this site.

Had a day of running around yesterday in Portland. It's close to 6 hrs of driving to get there and back home. I made 1 purchase, prearranged, plenty of communication prior too. Had a quick attempt at another purchase for my way home. Was no longer available, good communication. Thought I was midway through a deal with another seller. Good communication prior, but no responses in the last 48hrs. Attempts to initiate communication with yet another seller, with full cash offer in hand , and no haggle. No response. I don't feel butthurt about any of this. Was a good day. If I didn't get response, I just kept drivin on . Am I in the minority around here? I don't feel any need to seek or leave feedback. If the other party reaches out, I would definitely go through the steps and comment too.

My .02

 

[ZigZagZeke]

A contract is formed when two people agree upon a price for an item and "consideration" exchanges hands. That consideration can be the full purchase price, a deposit, or reliance upon the promise to sell/buy. In the case of the seller, his refusal of other offers in reliance upon the sales agreement is "consideration" that the seller has "paid". In the case of the buyer, his cancellation of a dentist appointment, or driving 20 miles in order to complete the deal is "consideration" that the buyer has "paid". If either party cancels the deal before the other has relied to his detriment upon the promise made then it's no harm, no foul. No "consideration" has changed hands.

 

[Paolung]

A contract is formed when two people agree upon a price for an item and "consideration" exchanges hands. That consideration can be the full purchase price, a deposit, or reliance upon the promise to sell/buy. In the case of the seller, his refusal of other offers in reliance upon the sales agreement is "consideration" that the seller has "paid". In the case of the buyer, his cancellation of a dentist appointment, or driving 20 miles in order to complete the deal is "consideration" that the buyer has "paid". If either party cancels the deal before the other has relied to his detriment upon the promise made then it's no harm, no foul. No "consideration" has changed hands.

And if the buyer has committed funds to the sale such that, even if an (alternative) attractive deal comes their way before the sale commences, and they deny to avail themselves of it because the funds are already committed? Would that be consideration?

If buyer relies to his detriment on the agreement to buy, after the seller accepted his offer price, but the other does not believe there is a committed deal in place, is it still a contract?

 

[arakboss]

I'd like to know if I'm out of line ?

If someone commits to selling or buying something than backs out or just ghost's "you".
to me that's good reason to leave negative feedback correct ?

Am I out of line by feeling others should know how these individuals have conducted/lack of business via negative feedback ?

Seems to me once a deal has been made via NWFA the seller should mark the ad "SPF" (sold pending funds)
Might be a good idea to make this a requirement ... ?

I agree with you but I would document all the exchanges you had with member and expect negative feedback in return.

 

[gmerkt]

The key here is being considerate of the other person and staying in communication.

Common courtesy goes a long way to taking up the slack when things go south. Which comes to the other "C" word, communication. You've got to do that to exercise courtesy in these online-inspired transactions.

Which is part of the problem, usually these kinds of transactions based on forum use don't originate face to face. Like they would at a gun show.

What gets me is when people agree to buy an item bail out at last min because they don't have the funds.

At a gun show, the buyer sees the stuff, he hands the money to the seller, it's done. The guy with no money wouldn't have options at a gun show. Online such as here at NWFA, there is a time delay that permits second thoughts, prevarication, downright shiftiness, more shopping, etc. Shiftiness can go both ways. Sellers have second opportunities to sell to another buyer who offers more money.

Which comes to honor. In online deals, "first money in my hand" may not always be the most honorable thing to do. Your first prospect might live 100 miles away; the second prospect may live five miles away. There's no way the first guy can get there before the second one, even if they both leave at the same time. If your first prospect commits to buy, you are honor bound to sell to him. Not the second guy who lives closer and the sale might be more convenient. Just the way my ethic works.

If a seller agrees to sell to Buyer Y at a given price, he should hold to that price and not give in to temptation to sell later to buyer Z for a higher price. If that's the mentality, the item should be sold on an auction site in the first place.

My approach when I've listed items for sale here is to take each inquiry in turn based on the time I got the message. I take them one at a time, give them a fair chance to make good. If I have multiple inquiries, I message the others that I am doing this and if one deal falls through, I will contact them next.

And, you do all these honorable things and deals will still get screwed up by accident and somebody will get PO'd at you.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

And if the buyer has committed funds to the sale such that, even if an (alternative) attractive deal comes their way before the sale commences, and they deny to avail themselves of it because the funds are already committed? Would that be consideration?

Absolutely. You relied on the contract in turning down a different desirable deal because the funds were committed to the original deal.

If buyer relies to his detriment on the agreement to buy, after the seller accepted his offer price, but the other does not believe there is a committed deal in place, is it still a contract?

"seller accepted his offer price, but the other does not believe there is a committed deal in place"

Seller offered an item for sale. Buyer proposed a price and seller accepted. That's the legal definition of a contract. In court you must prove the elements of the contract, so it's much easier to prevail with a written contract, but a verbal contract is still binding if you can show that it existed (testimony, messages, emails, etc.) to the court's satisfaction.

In fact, for most firearms sales, you could sue for specific performance, meaning that the seller must provide the exact firearm that you contracted for. If he sold it to someone else he would have to buy it back so he could sell it to you at the agreed upon price. This would probably come up with a collector's item.

These are pretty much the legal standards for a sales contract. They represent the minimum ethical standards for everyday people buying and selling. A truly ethical buyer or seller may go way beyond those minimums in treating others ethically.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Everyone step back 4 paces .
This isn't global commerce, it's a bunch of dudes buying, selling and trading. No more barracks lawyers need to weigh in on interwebs contract law , please.

No one who runs a brick and mortar retail store has ever enjoyed the fantasy protections I see being laid out here.

The reality is that selling from your couch is shaky at best. Having no real skin in the game means you should expect things to not go smoothly on a regular basis.

Blast away. I'm just laying bare the truth.

 

[salmon creek gary]

If I can be allowed a post that is off-topic, but still on-topic all at the the same time: Because of the following incident, I have only the highest regard for the stand-up LGS owner who sold my wife her first handgun, a very nice used GP-100. He demonstrated the sort of honorable behavior we'd all like to see for every transaction on this board.

After my wife's mandatory training session with her used GP-100 (this was in SoCal), a store employee set aside the gun to be cleaned and then stored for the duration of the mandatory 10 day waiting period. Within minutes, though, that gun was successfully walked out door by a teenager who'd been visiting the gunsmith. At that point, the store had my wife's payment, but no longer had the used GP-100 they'd agreed to sell to her.

By the end of my wife's 10 day waiting period, the used GP-100 had already been recovered by Sheriff's deputies, but that still didn't make it available to complete the sale.* The owner of the LGS - with apologies and zero equivocation about relative cost - ponied up an identical, gleaming-new GP-100 for my wife to take home.

*There's an even longer story (for another time) about the twisty chain of events that walked that stolen GP-100 into a police evidence locker within four days of the theft. Of course it stayed in evidence for many months after the day my wife took home her new GP-100.

 

[RobMa]

It is hard to get people to buy on this site as it is, let alone the fear of negative feedback..

 

[Luvmegrandkids]

Hey, guys, consider NOT leaving negative feedback even if you are "stood up", and communication stops......completely.. Life happens, and sometimes people do get into accidents or have unforeseen medical emergencies or other life changing circumstances. Consider being kind instead, regardless of the inconvenience and reach out to them out of concern to find out if they're ok.

You may be asking me by now if I've given this a try when stood up......yeah, I did......waited for a good while with no communication at all, later to find out the individual actually wound up in the hospital unexpectedly for a few days.

I survived, and thank goodness he did too. Wanna know what happened after his release from the hospital? We went about our business, completed the transaction and we have been good friends ever since.

It'a true, life just ain't fair at times. But we sure can be.
Y'all take care now!