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NOT an AOW & NOT a Pistol???

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by skydiver, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. skydiver

    skydiver Sandy,OR Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  2. Bookite03

    Bookite03 Aumsville, OR Member

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    I'm on the same page as you. I was flipping through the latest issue of "Shotgun News" and saw Franklin Armory had this setup posted in their ad. I already have an AR pistol with the 11.5" barrel...curious to see what you find out.
     
  3. ScorpioMk

    ScorpioMk Bothell Member

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    Just go by what atf says, if its over 26" with a forward grip its not an AOW since they have to be under 26". Its just an Other Weapon.
     
  4. spikedzombies

    spikedzombies Lakewood/Tacoma Member

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    So does the buffer tube count as part of the overall length?

    Sent via Iluminati Spy Satellite Foxtrot Yankee
     
  5. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Buffer tube would count. What's interesting is it seems one could do this themselves if you could show when you built the gun you built it not with the intention of being fired using one hand.. Or am I reading that wrong?
     
  6. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Yes the buffer tube counts for length because it is REQUIRED to make the gun function in this case. Even though the buffer tube CAN be used against the shoulder that is not the intent or the purpose so it is not considered a stock. Just make sure you use a buffer tube that can not readily accept a stock. Page 2 paragraph 2 and 3 clearly explain how and why this is legal, http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

    Now if you were to use a OA-93 style upper where no rear buffer tube was required then it would not count toward the OAL and could be considered a butt stock.
     
  7. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that weapon should be classified as a pistol.
     
  8. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    What is your legal basis for that? It in NO way fits the legal definition of a pistol.......... Along with the fact the ATF says it is not based on the letter from the ATF that I linked above with the legal reasons it is not.......
     
  9. FarmerTed1971

    FarmerTed1971 Portland, Oregon, United States Well-Known Member

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    Get em while you can.
     
  10. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    It has a rifled barrel and not butstock, therefore it is a pistol. The only thing throwing a wrench into the works is the forward vertical grip. Since it is not a smooth bore barrel designed to shoot a shotgun shell the barrel length dosent matter (between 12" & 18" for pistol grip short barreled shotguns). The ATF rules are vague as they change the classification of the weapon based on where it is (concealed or not), that is another problem here also. If I were the retailer selling this I would remove the forward grip if it came attached and sell it as a handgun with handgun purchasing requirements (21 years of age and resident of the state where transfer is taking place). If the gun came from the factory without the forward grip attached I would sell it as a handgun. If the purchaser wanted to install the forward grip after he/she bought it then the stupid infraction would be on them. What about those Rossi ranch hand lever action "handguns" that are a cut down rifle? They are a shortened barrel and shortened stock, and they are classified as handguns? The only difference I see here is the forward vertical grip that ATF somehow deems is evil, to me it's just an accessory. Call your local ATF field office and give a description of this firearm, I bet you don't get a consistant answer for your classification question.
     
  11. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Green read the ATF letter, it explains why it falls where it does.
     
  12. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    Also notice I said that weapon SHOULD be classified as a pistol. I read the letter in your link, the only reason they do not consider it a handgun is the forward vertical grip. Remove the FVG and all the sudden it's a pistol again? The letter also states that (given the overall length is not less than 26 inches) it can only be considered an AOW is if it has the forward grip attached and it is concealed on the person.

    Lawmakers and policy pundits are not burdened with having to interpret their words. The average consumer, the law enforcement officers, and ultimately the judiciary officials, are the folks that have that responsibility.
     
  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Soooo skydiver,you gunna test it for us? OC in Portland?
    I'll send brownies while you are up the river.
     
  14. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    As a 'other weapon' ,could it be CCed?
    It's not a pistol,I know Washington changed their carry permit to make sure it was specifically for pistols.
     
  15. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    do you need the phone number?
     
  16. ScorpioMk

    ScorpioMk Bothell Member

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    Call from a payphone. When you call they might just tell you to send a letter to the tech branch anyways, and you know how fast that goes.
     
  17. Both Eyes Open

    Both Eyes Open Hood Canal Active Member

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    I don't know about where you all live but my first reaction was... What the heck is a Payphone...lol!!!
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  18. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    It looks like a headache waiting to happen.

    The ATF may have things cleared up for now, but all the ATF has to do is issue a reclassification notice and you're in possession of an NFA item.

    Remember the Akins Accelerator.
    Heck, remember the shoe string?
    http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/
     
  19. cyclesarge

    cyclesarge Eugene OR, DUH! We're ALL in the NORTHWEST Well-Known Member

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    Great, they figured out a loophole to put a forward grip on a rifle lengthed weapon, that's not a rifle. In other words you get the lower velocity of an 11.5" barrel (vs 16"+) while NOT having the increased stability of being designed to shoot from the shoulder? And someone under 21 can't buy it?

    It seems like the ATF probably let it slide because it doesn't have the benefits of a rifle OR a pistol, while simultaneously having the DISadvantages of both.
     
  20. Fishnutz

    Fishnutz Hillsboro Member

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    :huh: