Any reason not to just SBR all my pistols?

[GunSmoke]

I'm sticking with braces....
1) they don't bother me
2) I'm not paying $200 for something I shouldn't have to.
3) the fed doesn't need more info on what I have
4) I can transport and sell pistols much easier.
5) if shtf then the brace could easily be swapped out and at that point the legality of my guns will be my last concern

"You're a free citizen, act accordingly" - someone else on here in another thread

 

[ilikegunspdx]

There is also the storage issue with rifles in a vehicle. There aren't as many good places to hide/secure anything larger than a conventional pistol unless you purpose build a safe in your vehicle for it. Even then, I think pizzamike has a point. There is a lot more to consider when confronted with a situation in public. If you're in or near you vehicle, and you have the opportunity to flee the scene unharmed with your family safe, you'll always want to take that opportunity. Otherwise, you can always keep the rifle unloaded, use your pistol to defend yourself while accessing the rifle and then load it when the situation calls for it.
One thing I would consider is keeping something like an AR9 or PCC with a brace in the vehicle, not for improved firepower but for better shot placement. Again, that requires me to shoulder it to maximize its usefulness.

For me I use a 5:11 sling bag that holds either 10.5" 5.56, 8.5" 300 BLK, mp5 clone reg size, mp5k clone, Stribog, or Glock 34 with usw chassis. The bag can hold 2 mp5s if you really wanted to. Throw it on pass floorboard or seat with zipper open and flap closed. 1 second to access but nobody can see it. Take it with you. Or can put under seat out of sight if you really want to. On your personnyou can swing it round and carry on your front if you want. Opens completely with a single pull for fast access. These were $38 on clearance (including removable fanny pack designed to hold up to 1911 size) but nobody wanted them when I posted on great deals here and 2 other places on NWFA. They don't look like a gun bag on outside. Just look like a random sling pack.


On your person that tab that is sticking out on lower left of pic below you grab with left hand and swing it around to the front and open (single pull) in one smooth motion and grab gun with right hand. It's fast deployment.

 

[lucusloc]

Do you realize you are arguing with a troll? Third reincarnation of 1775USMC.
View attachment 1857809

I never mind arguing with trolls because I am not arguing to change their mind, I am arguing for the benefit of those that read along after. They are a useful foil for getting ideas out into the wider consciousness.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I never mind arguing with trolls because I am not arguing to change their mind, I am arguing for the benefit of those that read along after. They are a useful foil for getting ideas out into the wider consciousness.

Good attitude! Most people just let themselves get riled up by the troll (which they feed off of). Cheers!

 

[Jcon268]

I'm sticking with braces....
1) they don't bother me
2) I'm not paying $200 for something I shouldn't have to.
3) the fed doesn't need more info on what I have
4) I can transport and sell pistols much easier.
5) if shtf then the brace could easily be swapped out and at that point the legality of my guns will be my last concern

"You're a free citizen, act accordingly" - someone else on here in another thread

Point 5 is the most convincing of these arguments IMO. Points 1 through 4 are matters of personal preference or taste. Point 3 is definitely subject to debate because it assumes they cannot easily get info on what you have anyways. Sure you won't be in a convenient database but there are many ways for them to secure data from your FFL. I had a local FFL I bought from frequently for 2-3 years who went out of business and standard protocol is turn in all of their records to the ATF. They can audit whomever they please.

 

[lucusloc]

Point 5 is the most convincing of these arguments IMO. Points 1 through 4 are matters of personal preference or taste. Point 3 is definitely subject to debate because it assumes they cannot easily get info on what you have anyways. Sure you won't be in a convenient database but there are many ways for them to secure data from your FFL. I had a local FFL I bought from frequently for 2-3 years who went out of business and standard protocol is turn in all of their records to the ATF. They can audit whomever they please.

It really is about legal risk. If you have a low tolerance for legal risk pay the stamp, if you do not then , guess you have to be careful who sees. The price for getting caught if pretty steep, so I pay or run a configuration that does not violate. If you are far more confident in your opsec and/or do not mind paying the legal toll if caught you may decide to save a few hundred buck per device. That math just does not make sense to me, but some people see it as a principle-only type thing. I get that to some extent, but principle will not get you very far when the rest of society rallies against you (or is completely indifferent when the petty thugs rally against you, the difference is pretty academic when you get right down to it). If you do want to die on that hill I will chip in a few bucks to your legal fund, knock yourself out.

With regards to braces specifically I really do like the short length of pull anyway, so for most of my use cases it does not make sense for me to pay for capability I will not use. I am fortunate that way, as people who prefer a longer length of pull have a much harder choice to make; deal with the short pull even if they do not like it; pay for the longer pull; hope they don't get caught. I am glad that is not a decision matrix I have to consider, even if I know the answer (because I choose to pay for the other things I want anyway).

On a more strategic scale I think challenging the NFA/ATF at every turn is a great strategy. They thrive in the grey zone of the law, and forcing them to rigidly define what is acceptable ties their hands for future decisions. This works for us even if we lose a few court battles, because it defines the limits of our innovation. most of these restrictions are pretty arbitrary, and if we leave them grey we will never know where we truly stand. If we force a specific and rigid definition we will know exactly what we can develop to get as close to the full functionality we want without actually tripping those stipulations in the law. and the ATF will not be able to prosecute anyone they want just because they got on their radar because the law will not be grey enough for them to get away with it, you will either be within the law or not, and everyone will know which it is ahead of time. With braces that will be a 13 inch length of pull (final disposition pending), for SBRs that will be 16 inches, we will see where FRTs land, but binary triggers already seem to be legally defines as acceptable. We should keep pushing to eliminate as much of the grey as possible and remove the ATFs ability to use that grey zone to their advantage.

 

[pacmanwa]

Because of Ze Jermans.

Not far off... had an "encounter" with a skinhead in Bonney Lake, I thought I was going to die. Turns out he was wanted to compliment me on my blue eyed, blonde haired 18 month old. Little did the skin head know, my wife is descended from the Ashkenazi tribe, hence my fear.

 

[PiratePast40]

I'm just here for the pictures of "every day carry rifles". I almost always carry, but maybe it's the places I frequent, like grocery stores, church, hardware store, and similar that just don't always seem to be the best places to have my everyday carry rifle sticking out of my pants. But I am very curious to see pictures of those that carry their rifles instead of a concealed handgun when out and about.

 

[wired]

I SBR everything because thats the way theyre supposed to be.

I dont fear the government. I just play their game successfully.

 

[wired]

I know a guy that SBR'ed all of his applicable pistols during the free registration period. My understanding is that the only down side is extra paperwork hassle if you decide to sell then. I think he has an AR9, SIG Spear, Ruger PC charger and Keltec CP33 all SBR'ed since he had braces on all of them before the before the ATF brace rule went into affect.

I honestly can't see why the government really cares about all the unregistered braces other than they aren't getting their $200. It is like silencers the advantages to having one from a criminal point of view aren't really significant. The time it takes to bring an SBR up to your shoulder, get a good cheek weld and sight picture actually makes them cumbersome and a disadvantage against someone just drawing a pistol at any reasonable fighting range. I would estimate you would need at least 50 yards distance to really see a discernable advantage to an SBR. If you are going to ambush someone at 50 yards or greater you might as well pack a folding rifle with a 16" barrel??? Shooting an SBR without using the brace/stock is ungainly, less accurate than just shooting a pistol and slower than shooting a pistol without a SBR brace/stock.

The only place I see an SBR really being useful at a normal fighting range would be with a full auto pistol... which requires registration anyway and is legally unobtainable by the common citizen.

There is no legal requirement to notify the ATF if you return a SBR back to its original rifle or pistol configuration and sell it. They like you to. Thats all. There isn't even an official government form to do it on. Not a law.

 

[JRMadrid]

Aside from paperwork to do so and the cost to get permission from the crown? Nope. No reason not to.




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Those who are above reproach are the first to be corrupted. Admitting faults is humbling yet necessary for transparency.

 

[Duneblaster]

 

[PiratePast40]

View attachment 1868356

We used to tape .22 shells to the front of our BB guns. Absolutely no idea where the bullets actually went except for, somewhere in that general direction!

 

[solv3nt]

We used to tape .22 shells to the front of our BB guns. Absolutely no idea where the bullets actually went except for, somewhere in that general direction!

They shouldn't really go anywhere. Without a barrel to hold everything together, rounds go off and mostly just pop out with a bit of speed. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to ever be got by a bullet, but it really shouldn't be fatal in virtually all instances.

 

[PiratePast40]

They shouldn't really go anywhere. Without a barrel to hold everything together, rounds go off and mostly just pop out with a bit of speed. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to ever be got by a bullet, but it really shouldn't be fatal in virtually all instances.

I agree, without anything to contain and direct pressure, not a ton of danger. Can't believe all the dumb things we did as kids. We would make a little puddle of gas in the dirt, put a round in the middle and light it. Again, not that dangerous, just fun. We also filled squeeze bottles with gas and shot it through a campfire. Instant poor man's flamethrower. Was fun until one of my friends was sitting on the other side of the campfire and the gas squirted right up his arm. Looked pretty cool, but, for some reason, he didn't appreciate it! We did get a chance to do a safety review of his drop and roll technique.