NOT an AOW & NOT a Pistol???

[Nwcid]

:huh:

I am stuck assuming that you asking what an "other weapon" is since there is no question there. The term is actually "any other weapon" ie AOW.

Page 7, section 2.1.5 <broken link removed>

 

[Fishnutz]

I am stuck assuming that you asking what an "other weapon" is since there is no question there. The term is actually "any other weapon" ie AOW.

Page 7, section 2.1.5 <broken link removed>

I should have left the whole quote

Just go by what atf says, if its over 26" with a forward grip its not an AOW since they have to be under 26". Its just an Other Weapon.

How can it be a "other weapon"? Ive only herd of AOW's not OW

 

[del_and_bones]

If you buy a firearm that does not meet the definition of handgun or long gun (stripped receivers, m1919, etc) it should be transferred as "other" on a 4473.

 

[cyclesarge]

How can it be a "other weapon"? Ive only herd of AOW's not OW

If YOU haven't heard of it, it can't exist?

The ATF letter simply calls it a "firearm", which I guess would be "other" on the 4473.

 

[cyclesarge]

What about those Rossi ranch hand lever action "handguns" that are a cut down rifle? They are a shortened barrel and shortened stock, and they are classified as handguns? The only difference I see here is the forward vertical grip that ATF somehow deems is evil, to me it's just an accessory. Call your local ATF field office and give a description of this firearm, I bet you don't get a consistant answer for your classification question.

They're not "cut down rifles", they start as a factory fresh pistol receiver, same as the Ruger Charger or any of the AR pistols made by numerous manufacturers.
The difference between the letter's definition of the "firearm" in question here is NOT the vertical forward grip but the greater than 26" oal. According to the letter a vertical forward grip added to a pistol makes it an AOW, but it's acceptable on this firearm, due to it's greater than 26" oal. The SUB 26" oal on the Ranch Hand (24") would make it an AOW if you added a vertical forward grip.

 

[PromptCritical]

IMPORTANT POINT:

The ATF letter applies to THEM AND THEM ALONE. If you get busted by an ATF guy for having your own home-brew gun that is identical to theirs, the letter to them stating their gun is legal has zero impact on your case. It might help you on appeal, but the ATF will still prosecute if they want to.

 

[CowardlyHero]

I was very interested in these myself and would like to point out a few key points to anyone thinking of actually building one these. Franklin armory can get away with this because their gun was NEVER intended to be used with one hand FROM THE FACTORY. It does not fall under the definition of an AOW because of its length, and it being designed to be used with 2 hands makes it an unclassified firearm meaning its not a pistol, rifle, SBR or an AOW. Now If you already own pistol AR it would be illegal for you to add the foreward grip even if your upper was the same length as the F.A. because it is already a pistol and adding a foreward grip would make it an AOW requiring the $200 stamp. Start with a stripped reciever and for the love of god get a letter from the ATF before you build getting the go ahead(If they will even give one) and keep a copy of the letter with the gun at all times.

 

[ScorpioMk]

If someone wanted one good luck getting one. I talked to them at shot also and they are only selling stripper uppers or lowers, not complete guns right now.

 

[HansC]

I apologize in advance if this seems like thread hijacking, but I saw a Draco bullpup conversion that does not change the weapon's classification as a pistol. Overall length is about 21 inches. There is no buttstock, but there is a safety guard over the receiver that looks like a handy place to rest your cheek if you tucked the rear end of the receiver into your shoulder. Converting a pistol to bullpup format does not require NFA licensing so long as no buttstock and no forward vertical grip are added. MOVING the location of a single pistol grip and trigger is OK. I'm toying with the idea of doing this with my Draco, since it is awkward to begin with, and less hassle than an SBR. I live in Oregon, but it seems this mod should be legal for Washington residents to perform.

I have some hesitation, because whether or not the ATF says it is legal, these things look illegal. Wouldn't want to run afoul of a local law enforcement agent just trying to do his job to the best of his ability. Anybody know whether a tech branch letter holds as much weight as an SBR license?

 

[skydiver]

I have some hesitation, because whether or not the ATF says it is legal, these things look illegal. Wouldn't want to run afoul of a local law enforcement agent just trying to do his job to the best of his ability. Anybody know whether a tech branch letter holds as much weight as an SBR license?

I'm not an attorney, but I believe it best to always play it safe when it comes to grey areas of the law. Best to get whatever you are going to do in writing first.

 

[huntpotter]

Looks stupid.

If you want a rifle, buy a AR. If you want a pistol, buy a 92. If you want an AOW buy a 870. That AR is a bad setup because it is neither a rifle, because you can't shoulder it up solid and shoot a match, and its in no way a pistol of any use to me. Way too long to be any good as a pistol. Adding a forward pistol grip looks good to wannabees. The legality of it is just a novelty.

I've shot an AOW MP5K-SP89 clone that was awesome with the vertical grip. But it was the MP5K Pistol configuration, so very short overall and handy as a pdw.

So what is the point of a pistol, with greater than 26" oal?