Any reason not to just SBR all my pistols?

[lucusloc]

Let me know how running through the streets with an AR or rifle plays out. If a cop doesn't shoot you there is an high probability another armed citizen will. But I'm not running to the sound of gunfire unless my loved ones are involved. My Glock is enough. Low signature is key.

Your head is a much more useful weapon than any pistol or rifle. Avoid those situations entirely. Risk assessment is key.

You're comparing a rifle to a pocket pistol….. want more efficiency than carry a bigger gun. Like @solv3nt said.

Just cause Rittenhouse did it doesn't mean you will be held to the same standard.

Kenosha is the counterargument to all of that. If you are worried about the legal fallout then why carry at all? We deal with the legal part after we survive the initial encounter. If having a compact rifle in the car helps with that survival there are many who would make the choice to carry that. Maybe not you, but still plenty enough people that there is even a healthy market for accessories related to such things.

When the riots come to you there is not a whole lot you can do about it but kit up and prepare. If you have to be out and about in that kind of environment having the rifle in your vehicle is almost as good as having it on your person. Sure I would advocate for leaving the situation if you can as well. But it is kinda hard to take your livelihood with you if it takes the form of a whole store, or if it requires you to visit clients in more hazardous areas, or a million other reasons for why "just avoid it" does not always work out in reality.

And there is no pistol in the world that you can carry in a holster on your hip that can compare to even a compact rifle for performance and capability (no, we are not counting "rifle holsters" for those same compact rifles, we all know what I am talking about here). If there was a pistol that could stack up every military in the world would be using that instead of rifles. Why carry more if you can get the same capability from less? Hell, look at the basic ballistics; I would rather carry my 10mm carbine with a 10 inch barrel than my 10mm pistol with a 4 inch one, and I would rather carry something with a full rifle round over either if I had the option. I will carry the biggest thing that is convenient to carry for every day use, I will carry the biggest thing I can carry for high threat use. Finding a good way to carry a small rifle in a vehicle lets you blend those two things together a little bit more than you otherwise would be able to.

 

[pizzamike]

So... it reads like you don't support the full exercise of 2A...

The Right to keep (possess, buy, acquire) and to bear ( carry on one's person) arms (weapons of offense and armor of defense, and everything that faciliate the use of such arms)

People are free to do what they want. If you wanna carry a rifle do it. Wanna carry a pistol do it. Just know choices come with consequences.

 

[pizzamike]

Kenosha is the counterargument to all of that. If you are worried about the legal fallout then why carry at all? We deal with the legal part after we survive the initial encounter. If having a compact rifle in the car helps with that survival there are many who would make the choice to carry that. Maybe not you, but still plenty enough people that there is even a healthy market for accessories related to such things.

When the riots come to you there is not a whole lot you can do about it but kit up and prepare. If you have to be out and about in that kind of environment having the rifle in your vehicle is almost as good as having it on your person. Sure I would advocate for leaving the situation if you can as well. But it is kinda hard to take your livelihood with you if it takes the form of a whole store, or if it requires you to visit clients in more hazardous areas, or a million other reasons for why "just avoid it" does not always work out in reality.

And there is no pistol in the world that you can carry in a holster on your hip that can compare to even a compact rifle for performance and capability (no, we are not counting "rifle holsters" for those same compact rifles, we all know what I am talking about here). If there was a pistol that could stack up every military in the world would be using that instead of rifles. Why carry more if you can get the same capability from less? Hell, look at the basic ballistics; I would rather carry my 10mm carbine with a 10 inch barrel than my 10mm pistol with a 4 inch one, and I would rather carry something with a full rifle round over either if I had the option. I will carry the biggest thing that is convenient to carry for every day use, I will carry the biggest thing I can carry for high threat use. Finding a good way to carry a small rifle in a vehicle lets you blend those two things together a little bit more than you otherwise would be able to.

I carry a gun to protect the ones I love. With that said I won't inject those I love into areas or situations that have a high probability of going south. And if I'm in a car I have the GAS pedal.

Left of bang.

Carry a rifle if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy then. I simply don't think it's a reality and it's more of an internet conversation/fantasy. But so is EDC, pocket dumps, being "kitted-up," physical fitness, etc.

I won't be rolling around in my truck with a SBR. But at the end of the day it's my life and it's my choice. We are all free to choose as we wish. I'm just curious as to the thought process on a "truck gun" in urban/city environments.

IMO the cons outweigh the pros.

 

[lucusloc]

I carry a gun to protect the ones I love. With that said I won't inject those I love into areas or situations that have a high probability of going south. And if I'm in a car I have the GAS pedal.

Left of bang.

Carry a rifle if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy then. I simply don't think it's a reality and it's more of an internet conversation. But so is EDC, pocket dumps, being "kitted-up," physical fitness, etc.

I won't be rolling around in my truck with a SBR. But at the end of the day it's my life and it's my choice. We are all free to choose as we wish. I'm just curious as to the thought process on a "truck gun" in urban/city environments.

Absolutely your life and your choice, and no one is telling you how to carry or how to plan. But there are a whole lot of other people out there in a whole lot of different circumstances. For some of them not being in those situations is not really a feasible option. Hell, it was almost not a feasible option where I live down in little ol' Springfield. We had the rioters scheduled to "demonstrate" in our downtown. I don't live there, but I have friends who live and work there, and they did not have an option to just "go away" for a week or however long it would have taken things to settle down.

So we all planned to be in downtown with rifles to protect the homes and businesses there from "vandalism" (i.e. looting and total destruction). We even coordinated with our local sheriff, and he was on board so long as the guys with rifles were not the same people as the guys doing the counter-protest with signs (would not have been my policy, but I can see the worry). We were very open and vocal about these plans (I think there was some coordination to this effect on this very forum) and lo and behold BLM et. al. decided that protesting in Springfield "would not be a productive use of their time" and the situation we were all worried about never materialized because we were planning on being there with rifles.

Now all that may not have been your choice and that is perfectly fine. We had a lot of people who were planning on staying far away from downtown from the duration. I get that, I stay away from Portland for the same reason. Not my town, not my problem. But some people will make the choice to actively defend others, their town or otherwise. That is every bit as valid a choice as skedaddling. And if you are going to make the choice to be in some kind of situation like that, for whatever reason that is, having a rifle in your truck could be a really good idea, and may actually be the difference you need. We already have real life examples of how this works, they are not invalid examples just because they are currently rare.

 

[pizzamike]

Absolutely your life and your choice, and no one is telling you how to carry or how to plan. But there are a whole lot of other people out there in a whole lot of different circumstances. For some of them not being in those situations is not really a feasible option. Hell, it was almost not a feasible option where I live down in little ol' Springfield. We had the rioters scheduled to "demonstrate" in our downtown. I don't live there, but I have friends who live and work there, and they did not have an option to just "go away" for a week or however long it would have taken things to settle down.

So we all planned to be in downtown with rifles to protect the homes and businesses there from "vandalism" (i.e. looting and total destruction). We even coordinated with our local sheriff, and he was on board so long as the guys with rifles were not the same people as the guys doing the counter-protest with signs (would not have been my policy, but I can see the worry). We were very open and vocal about these plans (I think there was some coordination to this effect on this very forum) and lo and behold BLM et. al. decided that protesting in Springfield "would not be a productive use of their time" and the situation we were all worried about never materialized because we were planning on being there with rifles.

Now all that may not have been your choice and that is perfectly fine. We had a lot of people who were planning on staying far away from downtown from the duration. I get that, I stay away from Portland for the same reason. Not my town, not my problem. But some people will make the choice to actively defend others, their town or otherwise. That is every bit as valid a choice as skedaddling. And if you are going to make the choice to be in some kind of situation like that, for whatever reason that is, having a rifle in your truck could be a really good idea, and may actually be the difference you need. We already have real life examples of how this works, they are not invalid examples just because they are currently rare.

Situation dictates.

What I find comical is the same people who argue for truck guns for "more firepower" are the same individuals who carry subcompacts/pocket pistols.

 

[lucusloc]

Situation dictates.

What I find comical is the same people who argue for truck guns for "more firepower" are the same individuals who carry subcompacts/pocket pistols.

It's not mutually exclusive at all. Again, I will carry the biggest convenient gun I can when I am not planning for a fight. If that is something that only fits into a pocket for <reason> then that is what I will carry. I do sometimes have need for truly deep concealment, and a pocket pistol fits that bill. When I do not need that I carry a full sized in an OWB rig. More firepower, more comfort, more better. And if I could carry that rifle in a pocket-dimension holster I would do that too, but since I can't I will consider that truck gun in an appropriate case or console, as my needs dictate. It is not inconsistent to want more firepower, but carry less because there is greater need for those other benefits (like not being seen). There is more to the equation than just raw firepower. If there was not then there would be no argument against carrying a rifle at all times. Carry what you can when you can, that is about all there is to it.

 

[pizzamike]

It's not mutually exclusive at all. Again, I will carry the biggest convenient gun I can when I am not planning for a fight. If that is something that only fits into a pocket for <reason> then that is what I will carry. I do sometimes have need for truly deep concealment, and a pocket pistol fits that bill. When I do not need that I carry a full sized in an OWB rig. More firepower, more comfort, more better. And if I could carry that rifle in a pocket-dimension holster I would do that too, but since I can't I will consider that truck gun in an appropriate case or console, as my needs dictate. It is not inconsistent to want more firepower, but carry less because there is greater need for those other benefits (like not being seen). There is more to the equation than just raw firepower. If there was not then there would be no argument against carrying a rifle at all times. Carry what you can when you can, that is about all there is to it.

Shouldn't you have the mindset of always preparing or planning for a fight? Isn't that why we as prepared citizens carry a gun?

I don't buy into the "convenience" mindset at all. IMO that's just an excuse to be lazy and drop standards.

Obviously you'll do what you want and I'll do what I want. We aren't going to convince each-other otherwise. Haha.

I'll meet you in the middle cause I do carry multiple 30 round AR mags in my vehicle even though I don't carry a rifle.

 

[MikeInOr]

I used to go from Oregon to ranges in Washington to shoot pretty often. Then the laws in Washington changed which make it pretty dicey to bring anything "assault-like" over there. Since I'm not traveling between states with my firearms anymore, is there any reason not to just Form 1 all my pistols into my trust at this point? I know there is a nationwide injunction on the pistol brace ban but I feel like they've already got us dancing us around with the pistol rules and shouldering implications. Shouldering a SBR for $200, while expensive short term, might be a better long term solution....or am I missing anything here?

I know a guy that SBR'ed all of his applicable pistols during the free registration period. My understanding is that the only down side is extra paperwork hassle if you decide to sell then. I think he has an AR9, SIG Spear, Ruger PC charger and Keltec CP33 all SBR'ed since he had braces on all of them before the before the ATF brace rule went into affect.

I honestly can't see why the government really cares about all the unregistered braces other than they aren't getting their $200. It is like silencers the advantages to having one from a criminal point of view aren't really significant. The time it takes to bring an SBR up to your shoulder, get a good cheek weld and sight picture actually makes them cumbersome and a disadvantage against someone just drawing a pistol at any reasonable fighting range. I would estimate you would need at least 50 yards distance to really see a discernable advantage to an SBR. If you are going to ambush someone at 50 yards or greater you might as well pack a folding rifle with a 16" barrel??? Shooting an SBR without using the brace/stock is ungainly, less accurate than just shooting a pistol and slower than shooting a pistol without a SBR brace/stock.

The only place I see an SBR really being useful at a normal fighting range would be with a full auto pistol... which requires registration anyway and is legally unobtainable by the common citizen.

 

[lucusloc]

Shouldn't you have the mindset of always preparing or planning for a fight? Isn't that why we as prepared citizens carry a gun?

I don't buy into the "convenience" mindset at all. IMO that's just an excuse to be lazy and drop standards.

Obviously you'll do what you want and I'll do what I want. We aren't going to convince each-other otherwise. Haha.

I'll meet you in the middle cause I do carry multiple 30 round AR mags in my vehicle even though I don't carry a rifle.

So you always carry a rifle? Full reload and armor kit? I mean I know if I knew I was going to be in a fight tomorrow I would be kitting out with only the best and all of the best to increase my chances of survival. Hell, I will take out a loan if I need to, I can worry about paying that off later, after I survive the fright.

There is a huge difference in preparation between "I might get mugged tomorrow" and "I will get mugged tomorrow." A pistol is what you carry for the first one, it is adequate insurance for the risk and the cost. A pistol is not what you carry for the second. The risk there is not only much higher, it is practically guaranteed. There is a reason soldiers carry rifles despite the inconvenience of the package, they are all but guaranteed to get into a fight too. And you will notice when they are not doing soldier things, when they are doing logistics or maintenance or whatever else, they typically do not carry their rifles on them because the risk of getting into a fight is not offset by the cost of trying to keep that big ol' thing on your person at all times if you are not likely going to need it.

This is all about risk and cost to mitigate that risk. The risk of needing a gun is pretty small, all things considered. So I carry a small gun to go with that risk. Many people carry no gun at all, and most of them are just fine by it. To me that is a bit too much risk, and I like having some option should I need it, even if that option is less than ideal. But that less than ideal option is just fine (for me) for the amount of risk it offsets vs. the cost to keep it on me.

A vehicle gun is exactly the same, only the cost to carry it is not directly bourn by your person, but rather by the vehicle. This means you can conveniently carry a larger gun with more capability that can offset larger risks. And the cost is the prep work needed to carry that larger gun as safely and securely as fits your needs. That is not always trivial, but it is a different set of considerations than trying to figure out how to carry something on your person.

 

[Jcon268]

There is also the storage issue with rifles in a vehicle. There aren't as many good places to hide/secure anything larger than a conventional pistol unless you purpose build a safe in your vehicle for it. Even then, I think pizzamike has a point. There is a lot more to consider when confronted with a situation in public. If you're in or near you vehicle, and you have the opportunity to flee the scene unharmed with your family safe, you'll always want to take that opportunity. Otherwise, you can always keep the rifle unloaded, use your pistol to defend yourself while accessing the rifle and then load it when the situation calls for it.
One thing I would consider is keeping something like an AR9 or PCC with a brace in the vehicle, not for improved firepower but for better shot placement. Again, that requires me to shoulder it to maximize its usefulness.

 

[lucusloc]

There is also the storage issue with rifles in a vehicle. There aren't as many good places to hide/secure anything larger than a conventional pistol unless you purpose build a safe in your vehicle for it. Even then, I think pizzamike has a point. There is a lot more to consider when confronted with a situation in public. If you're in or near you vehicle, and you have the opportunity to flee the scene unharmed with your family safe, you'll always want to take that opportunity. Otherwise, you can always keep the rifle unloaded, use your pistol to defend yourself while accessing the rifle and then load it when the situation calls for it.
One thing I would consider is keeping something like an AR9 or PCC with a brace in the vehicle, not for improved firepower but for better shot placement. Again, that requires me to shoulder it to maximize its usefulness.

The security thing is my biggest impediment to implementation. I am considering replacing my whole center console with something dedicated to discrete storage. But it is a large cost, I think this consideration and cost is what keeps a lot more people from doing it. If it was easy and cheap there would be a lot more people out there with vehicle guns.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'd love to see better gun storage solutions for those not blessed with having a pickup truck or a sedan like for example, a Dodge Caravan, even those with the stow-n-go seat floor storage bins, they aren't that convenient nor lockable for putting a rifle or handgun in.

 

[Nwcid]

Just out of curiosity why do you need a loaded rifle in your vehicle when you can carry a loaded handgun on your person?

Obviously where you live rural vs urban dictates.

For me it is a matter of definition and practicality. In some states the definition off "loaded" means a round in the chamber. In some states like WA, it means having a magazine with ammo in it, in the gun, "There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action".

While it is rare I feel the need to run around with a cambered round, it is very common, and makes basic logistical sense to have the magazine in the gun.

 

[MikeInOr]

There is a huge difference in preparation between "I might get mugged tomorrow" and "I will get mugged tomorrow." A pistol is what you carry for the first one, it is adequate insurance for the risk and the cost. A pistol is not what you carry for the second. The risk there is not only much higher, it is practically guaranteed. There is a reason soldiers carry rifles despite the inconvenience of the package, they are all but guaranteed to get into a fight too. And you will notice when they are not doing soldier things, when they are doing logistics or maintenance or whatever else, they typically do not carry their rifles on them because the risk of getting into a fight is not offset by the cost of trying to keep that big ol' thing on your person at all times if you are not likely going to need it.

If I know I am going to get mugged tomorrow i will stay home. If I know I am going to get mugged tomorrow and there is no choice to stay home I am going to carry a 15 round 45acp or 10mm pistol in a OWB holster with a cover garment. At mugging range I want a pistol, not a rifle! For me a pistol is faster to deploy and faster to get a shot off. This is why cops carry pistols on them where ever they go and the rifle is locked in their patrol car. I can easily hit a target and even make a head shot at 25 yards with my carry pistols. 25 yards away or more isn't really mugging distance so the extra accuracy at the range of a rifle (or SBR) isn't relevant to getting mugged.

The difference between a soldier and me is a soldiers job is to seek out the fight where I take it upon myself to avoid a fight. A soldiers job is to go forwards and engage an assailant, my job is to run away from an assailant and remove myself from possible harm. A soldier is likely to engage a bad guy at considerable range then close in on the bad guy which is where a rifle will have an advantage.

If I have a time machine like on sci-fi shows and I KNOW I will be confronting a mall shooter at a considerable range I will figure out how to have a rifle on me. But this is as realistic as all the other fantasy situations people on the internet like to come up with to justify carrying a rifle on them.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Edit. Wrong thread maybe? Lol

 

[pizzamike]

If I know I am going to get mugged tomorrow i will stay home. If I know I am going to get mugged tomorrow and there is no choice to stay home I am going to carry a 15 round 45acp or 10mm pistol in a OWB holster with a cover garment. At mugging range I want a pistol, not a rifle! For me a pistol is faster to deploy and faster to get a shot off. This is why cops carry pistols on them where ever they go and the rifle is locked in their patrol car. I can easily hit a target and even make a head shot at 25 yards with my carry pistols. 25 yards away or more isn't really mugging distance so the extra accuracy at the range of a rifle (or SBR) isn't relevant to getting mugged.

The difference between a soldier and me is a soldiers job is to seek out the fight where I take it upon myself to avoid a fight. A soldiers job is to go forwards and engage an assailant, my job is to run away from an assailant and remove myself from possible harm. A soldier is likely to engage a bad guy at considerable range then close in on the bad guy which is where a rifle will have an advantage.

If I have a time machine like on sci-fi shows and I KNOW I will be confronting a mall shooter at a considerable range I will figure out how to have a rifle on me. But this is as realistic as all the other fantasy situations people on the internet like to come up with to justify carrying a rifle on them.

This.

 

[Jcon268]

I'd love to see better gun storage solutions for those not blessed with having a pickup truck or a sedan like for example, a Dodge Caravan, even those with the stow-n-go seat floor storage bins, they aren't that convenient nor lockable for putting a rifle or handgun in.

A lot of modernization of firearms is making "SBR length" guns backpackable, ie. folding stock and even QD barrels etc. The one advantage I see here is, if I'm in a place that I cannot conveniently exit and an active shooter starts attacking people, I can find a secluded spot to deploy this gun. There are two drawbacks. The first is, I'm instinctively going to draw my sidearm first because it's already loaded and ready to go so it's the quickest response which makes it the most rational. The second is, being in public with a firearm that has a stock or anything that looks like one is likely to draw negative attention from bystanders and or police who don't know you from the shooter. I'm thinking of a guy who recently took down a shooter wielding an AR with his pistol. When he went to the shooter to make sure the AR was neutralized, he was gunned down by police and died at the scene. To me this is as big a fear as actually being shot by the shooter. Dead is dead.

 

[Camelfilter]

A lot of modernization of firearms is making "SBR length" guns backpackable, ie. folding stock and even QD barrels etc. The one advantage I see here is, if I'm in a place that I cannot conveniently exit and an active shooter starts attacking people, I can find a secluded spot to deploy this gun. There are two drawbacks. The first is, I'm instinctively going to draw my sidearm first because it's already loaded and ready to go so it's the quickest response which makes it the most rational. The second is, being in public with a firearm that has a stock or anything that looks like one is likely to draw negative attention from bystanders and or police who don't know you from the shooter. I'm thinking of a guy who recently took down a shooter wielding an AR with his pistol. When he went to the shooter to make sure the AR was neutralized, he was gunned down by police and died at the scene. To me this is as big a fear as actually being shot by the shooter. Dead is dead.

This incident? : https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-mistaken-by-police-to-be-killer/

Pretty sad. Also possibly avoidable. Don't pick up a criminals firearm.

 

[Alexx1401]

Just out of curiosity why do you need a loaded rifle in your vehicle when you can carry a loaded handgun on your person?

Obviously where you live rural vs urban dictates.

For me? This is just me, I don't even try to speak for how others should do it. I keep a small rifle with me as a "just in case". Have seen what people are capable of when they panic. Since I have no way to predict when something may set off some "mob" I like having the gun. Will I ever "need it"? Most likely no. So again I don't suggest anyone else should do what I do.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Kenosha is the counterargument to all of that. If you are worried about the legal fallout then why carry at all? We deal with the legal part after we survive the initial encounter. If having a compact rifle in the car helps with that survival there are many who would make the choice to carry that. Maybe not you, but still plenty enough people that there is even a healthy market for accessories related to such things.

When the riots come to you there is not a whole lot you can do about it but kit up and prepare. If you have to be out and about in that kind of environment having the rifle in your vehicle is almost as good as having it on your person. Sure I would advocate for leaving the situation if you can as well. But it is kinda hard to take your livelihood with you if it takes the form of a whole store, or if it requires you to visit clients in more hazardous areas, or a million other reasons for why "just avoid it" does not always work out in reality.

And there is no pistol in the world that you can carry in a holster on your hip that can compare to even a compact rifle for performance and capability (no, we are not counting "rifle holsters" for those same compact rifles, we all know what I am talking about here). If there was a pistol that could stack up every military in the world would be using that instead of rifles. Why carry more if you can get the same capability from less? Hell, look at the basic ballistics; I would rather carry my 10mm carbine with a 10 inch barrel than my 10mm pistol with a 4 inch one, and I would rather carry something with a full rifle round over either if I had the option. I will carry the biggest thing that is convenient to carry for every day use, I will carry the biggest thing I can carry for high threat use. Finding a good way to carry a small rifle in a vehicle lets you blend those two things together a little bit more than you otherwise would be able to.

Do you realize you are arguing with a troll? Third reincarnation of 1775USMC.