North Fork Wolf Creek Recreational Shooting Lanes

[Mikej]

Okay, here's one of those ideas...

The wording, color and layout can all be easily changed before any printing. Suggestions appreciated.

This would be a 8 1/2 X 11 printed onto the white Corex material (realtor yard sign kind). It would be mounted to a metal post and located next to each kiosk at each lane, (except lane 4 would be just past the kiosk).

Note that there are no Names on the sign (not ODF, Trash No Land nor NWFA). Just a message someone made and placed it there.

Printing at home would only be on regular paper and that would get ruined at the first rain. So, we're best to have a print shop make them like the others we've done.

This could also be used in other forests and other dispersed shooting sites, as it doesn't name any specific agency.

If we think this is the right thing to do, let's refine this and send it to the print shop!

View attachment 1773706 View attachment 1773722​

Now you're thinking! Any chance lettering could be done with permanent marker on that stuff? Some others of us could get some, write them, and replace them when they go up there. And what about something a little simpler worded in larger, more viewable, letters? And a couple three posts along the road side on the way up? It might be less likely for the terds to get out of a vehicle to destroy those? Might last a little longer?

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

How about something along the lines of:

The Forest Agency DOES NOT have crews that clean.


To keep this site OPEN, we need to keep it clean.

It is only cleaned by YOU, the public.


Pack it in, Pack it out!

 

[Cogs]

Now you're thinking! Any chance lettering could be done with permanent marker on that stuff? Some others of us could get some, write them, and replace them when they go up there. And what about something a little simpler worded in larger, more viewable, letters? And a couple three posts along the road side on the way up? It might be less likely for the terds to get out of a vehicle to destroy those? Might last a little longer?

My big concern with that is it becomes like littering the forest with signage. People want to see natural things, not more signs. I kinda think ODF would come along and remove them, due to them not being an authorized ODF sign (Especially if they were hand written with a sharpie). But a professional looking, printed, sign at the lanes may fly with ODF. We'll wait till they say something and ask questions later.

 

[Mikej]

My big concern with that is it becomes like littering the forest with signage. People want to see natural things, not more signs. I kinda think ODF would come along and remove them, due to them not being an authorized ODF sign (Especially if they were hand written with a sharpie). But a professional looking, printed, sign at the lanes may fly with ODF. We'll wait till they say something and ask questions later.

Natural things? In industrial forests? A half a mile past the cut off to the range is anything but natural. And I was speaking of just before lane 1, maybe? And a couple more between 2-3/3-4. Kind of a subliminal "Do the right thing" thing.

 

[Cogs]

And a couple three posts along the road side on the way up? It might be less likely for the terds to get out of a vehicle to destroy those? Might last a little longer?

Now, we could consider spreading out some of those separate message signs along the wye Rd up to the lanes. First one just past the main Wolf Creek sign and the last one just before Lane 1. Then still have a sign, with the full message, at each lane.

​

 

[Cogs]

Those Burma Shave signs could be something like:

#1
WELCOME PUBLIC LAND OWNERS

#2
ENJOY THIS SPECIAL PLACE TO SHOOT

#3
KEEP IT CLEAN TO KEEP IT OPEN

#4
PACK IT IN, PACK IT OUT

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

I'd change wording on #1 - people have no idea what that means, therefore will assume it does not mean them.

 

[Cogs]

I'd change wording on #1 - people have no idea what that means, therefore will assume it does not mean them.

Yeah, could be. Hmmm... I was thinking of trying to remind them that they ARE public land owners and might instill some pride in ownership.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Yeah, i see that angle.

But i think the angle we need here, is lowest common denominator, the good stuff is already on the signage at the lanes.
Those who would understand the ownership, don't likely cause the problem in the first place.

 

[DirectDrive]

On the sign verbiage :
I like the overall message.
It's like messaging cats, though. You have to first get their attention and and then make the message crystal-clear.
Maybe the following would work ?

I think either "ATTENTION" or "WARNING" in a contrasting color (red/orange) and in upper case should be the first line of this signage.
Also midway in the message should be something like :
"The forest agency does not maintain this site, you do"
"To keep this area open, keep it clean"
"Do not leave any targets or shooting materials"

And then at the end, PACK IT IN, PACK IT OUT I don't think resonates with the people we are trying to reach.
I think it should be more like :
"Please pick up your trash and take it with you"
"Your fellow shooters should not have to pick up your trash"
"Help keep this site open by keeping it clean"

 

[Cogs]

On the sign verbiage :

I think either "ATTENTION" or "WARNING" in a contrasting color (red/orange) and in upper case should be the first line of this signage.
Also midway in the message should be something like "To keep this area open, keep it clean" "Do not leave any target or shooting materials" followed by "The forest agency does not maintain this site, we do"

And then at the end, PACK IT IN, PACK IT OUT I don't think resonates with the people we are trying to reach.
I think it should be more like "Please pick up your trash and take it with you"
"Help keep this site open"

Good point. Will keep in mind for editing.

 

[WildBills-AR]

Okay, here's one of those ideas...

The wording, color and layout can all be easily changed before any printing. Suggestions appreciated.

This would be a 8 1/2 X 11 printed onto the white Corex material (realtor yard sign kind). It would be mounted to a metal post and located next to each kiosk at each lane, (except lane 4 would be just past the kiosk).

Note that there are no Names on the sign (not ODF, Trash No Land nor NWFA). Just a message someone made and placed it there.

Printing at home would only be on regular paper and that would get ruined at the first rain. So, we're best to have a print shop make them like the others we've done.

This could also be used in other forests and other dispersed shooting sites, as it doesn't name any specific agency.

If we think this is the right thing to do, let's refine this and send it to the print shop!

View attachment 1773706 View attachment 1773722​

I think it's just about perfect. Maybe say something like please take out more out than you bought in type of thing? Just a idea but it's good regardless. And thank you for all the hard work you do! Sorry I missed when you were up there. I got preoccupied and totally forgot. I haven't been going as much as I used to past 2 years. I have to admit I don't clean up my brass as well as I could sometimes, but also the twekeekers are usually on it before I leave almost every time. As far as just trash I take a bag out each time it's all I can manage. I'm actually hopping to go very soon. It's cold but I don't usually mind and less busy.

One more thing what are your thoughts on the biodegradable clay pigeons? I don't take them up but I do shoot at the small pieces that are on the backstop like lane 3/4. I shoot at my steel targets mainly but like to plink at the little small pieces for fun.

 

[Cogs]

what are your thoughts on the biodegradable clay pigeons? I don't take them up but I do shoot at the small pieces that are on the backstop like lane 3/4. I shoot at my steel targets mainly but like to plink at the little small pieces for fun.

The clays are said to be okay, because they are biodegradable, but they sure take their sweet time degrading! What bugs me the most, is the color that doesn't fade very quickly. Wish they could use a paint that washes away at the first rain!

Otherwise, they are what they are and not a concern for the environment, just an eye sore seeing the bright orange specs all over.

At cleanups, we usually don't bother to pick them up unless we have the time and patients.

 

[Mikej]

Yeah, i see that angle.

But i think the angle we need here, is lowest common denominator, the good stuff is already on the signage at the lanes.
Those who would understand the ownership, don't likely cause the problem in the first place.

I'm far from a lowest common denominator. I don't necessarily read those kiosk signs. I pretty much already know how to set up targets, shoot safely, clean up when I leave and so on. The signs in plain view on the side of the road on the way up are to put a thought in the generally respectful users minds. I/they might even think to grab a little more than what I took up there. The sign may put that idea in others heads. To grab a little more.

Put any constructive message on the signs, mix it up some. The signs will most likely get torn off the post at some point. If the post survives, who cares what the message is, as long as it's constructive toward taking care of the resource?

 

[Mikej]

Now, we could consider spreading out some of those separate message signs along the wye Rd up to the lanes. First one just past the main Wolf Creek sign and the last one just before Lane 1. Then still have a sign, with the full message, at each lane.

View attachment 1773771​

Looking at a close-up of this ^^^ looks really good. It looks like an invite to a party!

Think about people that have rarely been up there, or never been up there? It may help people see this as more of a special place?

An issue that just came to mind is that scrappers may pull the whole damned things out.

 

[WildBills-AR]

The clays are said to be okay, because they are biodegradable, but they sure take their sweet time degrading! What bugs me the most, is the color that doesn't fade very quickly. Wish they could use a paint that washes away at the first rain!

Otherwise, they are what they are and not a concern for the environment, just an eye sore seeing the bright orange specs all over.

At cleanups, we usually don't bother to pick them up unless we have the time and patients.

Cool, thanks the little orange pieces is why I like shooting at them, lol. So I guess it helps that I'm breaking them down. But yes I agree more of an eye sore.

Thanks

 

[kerotan87]

kerotan87 posted a new question on the resource North Fork Wolf Creek Recreational Shooting Lanes.

 

[Cogs]

kerotan87 posted a new question on the resource North Fork Wolf Creek Recreational Shooting Lanes.

Nope, Google is wrong. Sort of. The forest is open 24 hrs a day, yes, however target shooting is allowed between the hours of:
half hour before sunrise to half hour after sunset.
ODF Regs:

See Line G
​

To shoot at night, you'll need private property.

 

[toast]

I think the info that is missing from the proposed sign is the part about WHO is doing the cleaning if it's not the forest service. To me, this is the most important info for the sign to convey.

OK, sure, we all hope that YOU do it -- whoever YOU are reading the sign.

But, who does it if YOU don't do it?

The sign doesn't say.

Make people understand that other regular folk have been donating time/money/effort to cleaning up after them (as opposed to someone who is responsible/obligated/getting paid), and at least SOME people will make an extra effort.

It's a guilt play. The signage is attempting to guilt people into doing the right thing. But the real guilt comes from realizing it's good, regular people you're imposing on, as opposed to paid government employees. Lots of people don't care much about "doing the right thing" in the general sense, but still try to avoid being jerks to other individuals in specific circumstances once they realize there are actual people being affected.

An additional potential benefit of explicitly stating that it's a VOLUNTEER effort, is the opportunity to use the sign to promote TNL and invite new volunteers to join in an ongoing process -- assuming such promotion is OK with ODF and desired by TNL.

Expect zero inference -- "it's YOUR forest, you own it" will have zero impact. If they already felt that way, they wouldn't trash it to begin with. A sign saying so isn't going to produce that epiphany. Plus, have you seen some people's properties? If they owned it, building mountains of garbage is EXACTLY how they'd treat it.

It's too bad a supply of trash bags can't be left for the use of the well intentioned yet poorly prepared, but someone would just steal them. And if trash barrels or similar were available at lanes to at least make cleanup easier, they'd be filled with dumped household refuse. Ugh, people.

 

[Cogs]

I think the info that is missing from the proposed sign is the part about WHO is doing the cleaning if it's not the forest service. To me, this is the most important info for the sign to convey.

OK, sure, we all hope that YOU do it -- whoever YOU are reading the sign.

But, who does it if YOU don't do it?

The sign doesn't say.

Make people understand that other regular folk have been donating time/money/effort to cleaning up after them (as opposed to someone who is responsible/obligated/getting paid), and at least SOME people will make an extra effort.

It's a guilt play. The signage is attempting to guilt people into doing the right thing. But the real guilt comes from realizing it's good, regular people you're imposing on, as opposed to paid government employees. Lots of people don't care much about "doing the right thing" in the general sense, but still try to avoid being jerks to other individuals in specific circumstances once they realize there are actual people being affected.

An additional potential benefit of explicitly stating that it's a VOLUNTEER effort, is the opportunity to use the sign to promote TNL and invite new volunteers to join in an ongoing process -- assuming such promotion is OK with ODF and desired by TNL.

Expect zero inference -- "it's YOUR forest, you own it" will have zero impact. If they already felt that way, they wouldn't trash it to begin with. A sign saying so isn't going to produce that epiphany. Plus, have you seen some people's properties? If they owned it, building mountains of garbage is EXACTLY how they'd treat it.

It's too bad a supply of trash bags can't be left for the use of the well intentioned yet poorly prepared, but someone would just steal them. And if trash barrels or similar were available at lanes to at least make cleanup easier, they'd be filled with dumped household refuse. Ugh, people.

Good points to consider! I'll certainly put some thought into that.

Thanks for the input!

Bill