NFA Trust Questions

acdodge · May 6, 2015

I am looking into getting a NFA Trust (seems like the way to go) and was looking around for some info. First I saw SilencerCo having a NFA Trust for $130. Seems like a decent deal but wondering if that's just a startup cost and a few legalities.

- Does the $130 just cover setting up the trust or does it cover amendments as well?

- Is the Trust through SilencerCo or is it a self sustaining private entity? By that I mean, if SilencerCo goes under, will I have to get a new trust or is it separate from that company?

- I have a Mega Lower with a 16" 556 barrel currently. I want to get a 300blk 10.5" upper to use with my lower. How does that process work and do I have to fill out a Form 1 or 4? Also how would it work with a Trust?

- Also if I built a 10.5" upper, can I keep it in the safe with my lower (not used or mounted of course) before my lower is registered as a SBR?

- If my Mega lower is registered as a SBR can I place the 16" upper on it and sell it as a regular AR or does it have to be transferred as a SBR?

Thanks in advance!

308 · May 6, 2015

Quicken Willmaker for ~$40 and make your own "Revokable Living Trust"
Get it signed and notarized
Mark the originals with a yellow highlighter
Make copies
Submit a copy of your Certification of Trust and a copy of your Declaration of Trust with the Form-4 paperwork and you are good to go.

I'm sure there are lawyers who would prefer you to have them use their software version for 3x the price tho.

The rest of your questions are answered on the BATFE website.

bluesurf · May 6, 2015

I paid $600 for a lawyer in PDX to make me a specific NFA trust. It is nice to be able ask her questions. I thought it would nice to have a lawyer in case you needed something changed down the road. I haven't needed any changes as of the last couple years and it really is just a notarized document.

If I did it again, I would have used the SilencerCo trust(it wasn't around at the time I needed it). There is not much too it.

Just get ready to wait for a long time and a "need" to add more cool toys to the trust.

conp435 · May 6, 2015

$97 http://www.199trust.com#oid=1205_1

SCARed · May 6, 2015

I am looking into getting a NFA Trust (seems like the way to go) and was looking around for some info. First I saw SilencerCo having a NFA Trust for $130. Seems like a decent deal but wondering if that's just a startup cost and a few legalities.

- Does the $130 just cover setting up the trust or does it cover amendments as well? You set up any amendments, as you are the trust.

- Is the Trust through SilencerCo or is it a self sustaining private entity? By that I mean, if SilencerCo goes under, will I have to get a new trust or is it separate from that company? The trust is a legal entity that you are creating. It has nothing to do with silencerco other than them providing you with the template. You will sign it and get it notorized. Its yours.

- I have a Mega Lower with a 16" 556 barrel currently. I want to get a 300blk 10.5" upper to use with my lower. How does that process work and do I have to fill out a Form 1 or 4? Also how would it work with a Trust? You are MAKING a SBR, so thats a Form 1. With a trust, its very easy and you can do it online.

- Also if I built a 10.5" upper, can I keep it in the safe with my lower (not used or mounted of course) before my lower is registered as a SBR? NO That is possession of a SBR. If you have a short upper, that CANNOT be used in any legal configuration with the lowers you have, you posses a SBR.

- If my Mega lower is registered as a SBR can I place the 16" upper on it and sell it as a regular AR YES
But because you have to get the lower engraved with your trust info, the lower is most likely worthless to anyone else. So don't SBR a lower you might want to get rid of.

Thanks in advance!

The Armory section over at ar15 is the best forum I have found for NFA info.[/QUOTE]

Rockys · May 6, 2015

One note on trusts is find one that you can name yourself. A lot of the online places create really long names. Remember that you have to engrave the name of your trust on a form 1 item so the shorter the better.

acdodge · May 6, 2015

Thanks for the info everyone (especially SCARed). Lots of good info to get me started. Definitely didn't know about having to engrave my lower.

Member 34319 · May 7, 2015

Coyote rifle works. I'm still trying to comprehend 600 dollars.

Member 34319 · May 7, 2015

To answer the rest of the questions. Silencerco fills out the legal forms with your information. You are required to get it notarized. Then it is your trust, nothing to do with whoever set it up, unless you paid 600, then I'd sure as poop hope they cover you for anything stupid that may come up as well as adjusting amendments.

You will be creating a SBR. That is a form 1. You will have to add the serialized lower you wish to SBR to your trusts amendment prior to submitting to the ATF.

It is always best practice not to have an unconfigured NFA item in your house. No matter how many pieces it is in spread out in how ever many rooms.

Once the lower is registered as an SBR it is an SBR. If you wanted to sell it the buyer would be buying an SBR and would have to go through the same crap.

Seeing as you are creating a SBR using a form 1. You will be required to engrave the receiver with the trusts name and city and state. You can use the manufacturers serial.

Have fun! And enjoy NFA items, they are a PITA to get, but worth it in the end.

Member 34319 · May 7, 2015

Oh and if your efiling. Make sure to lower your settings on your scanner. The ATF website only takes PDFs of a certain file size. Sometimes hard to do with a multiple page trust document.

SCARed · May 7, 2015

Reno911 said:
Once the lower is registered as an SBR it is an SBR. If you wanted to sell it the buyer would be buying an SBR and would have to go through the same crap.

This portion isn't true. It's only a NFA item when configured as such. So sell it as just a lower or slap a 16" upper to it and you can sell it as any other firearm.

Member 34319 · May 8, 2015

Nope. Once it is registered the weapon is always an SBR. No matter how you configure it. That is why you usually put the shortest length possible on the paperwork when filing, as they don't care if you have a 20" barrel on it later on down the road. In their eyes, you have a serialized lower receiver that is attached to a 7.5" barreled upper registered within the ATF database.

I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there may be consequences selling someone your SBR'd receiver in a rifle configuration to someone not filing a form 4.

SCARed · May 8, 2015

Reno911 said:
Nope. Once it is registered the weapon is always an SBR. No matter how you configure it. That is why you usually put the shortest length possible on the paperwork when filing, as they don't care if you have a 20" barrel on it later on down the road. In their eyes, you have a serialized lower receiver that is attached to a 7.5" barreled upper registered within the ATF database.

I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there may be consequences selling someone your SBR'd receiver in a rifle configuration to someone not filing a form 4.

If your registering a SBR, and its in SBR configuration, it doesn't matter what length upper is on it. It can be shorter , it can be longer. You don't need to "put the shortest length possible" on the paperwork. It doesn't matter.

And YES, take a SBR out of NFA configuration, and it's no longer under the NFA pervue. You can sell it as any other firearm.

Sigh... as someone who has, I'm assuming, NFA items, it might be worthwhile for you to actually know the NFA laws, and not propagate these internet myths. (read as, before you respond and try to argue against, look up the NFA laws)

Rockys · May 8, 2015

Check the atf's website for the facts

SCARed · May 8, 2015

I was going to let him look it up. In general, people who do their own research tend to remember it longer.

Member 34319 · May 8, 2015

SCARed said:
If your registering a SBR, and its in SBR configuration, it doesn't matter what length upper is on it. It can be shorter , it can be longer. You don't need to "put the shortest length possible" on the paperwork. It doesn't matter.

And YES, take a SBR out of NFA configuration, and it's no longer under the NFA pervue. You can sell it as any other firearm.

Sigh... as someone who has, I'm assuming, NFA items, it might be worthwhile for you to actually know the NFA laws, and not propagate these internet myths. (read as, before you respond and try to argue against, look up the NFA laws)

Well bubblegum. Read it up. I guess you can legally sell the lower to someone without them going through a transfer and getting their own stamp.

However the thing is still registered in your name with the ATF as an SBR. I would see what is required to let them know you no longer own it if you sell it as a lower or rifle.

Sorry guys. Ive only own two NFA items, one is s suppressor and the other is a SBR AR15.

I guess I figured private selling a lower that's registered would be like that of selling a suppressor.

Thanks for the push to research.

SCARed · May 8, 2015

Reno911 said:
However the thing is still registered in your name with the ATF as an SBR. I would see what is required to let them know you no longer own it if you sell it as a lower or rifle.

The ATF recommends sending them a letter stating to remove it from the registry, but it is not required. The instances I know of where that was done, the person received a confirmation letter over a year after originally requesting the removal.