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NFA Trust Questions

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by acdodge, May 6, 2015.

  1. acdodge

    acdodge Hillsboro/ Wilsonville Member

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    I am looking into getting a NFA Trust (seems like the way to go) and was looking around for some info. First I saw SilencerCo having a NFA Trust for $130. Seems like a decent deal but wondering if that's just a startup cost and a few legalities.

    - Does the $130 just cover setting up the trust or does it cover amendments as well?

    - Is the Trust through SilencerCo or is it a self sustaining private entity? By that I mean, if SilencerCo goes under, will I have to get a new trust or is it separate from that company?

    - I have a Mega Lower with a 16" 556 barrel currently. I want to get a 300blk 10.5" upper to use with my lower. How does that process work and do I have to fill out a Form 1 or 4? Also how would it work with a Trust?

    - Also if I built a 10.5" upper, can I keep it in the safe with my lower (not used or mounted of course) before my lower is registered as a SBR?

    - If my Mega lower is registered as a SBR can I place the 16" upper on it and sell it as a regular AR or does it have to be transferred as a SBR?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Quicken Willmaker for ~$40 and make your own "Revokable Living Trust"
    Get it signed and notarized
    Mark the originals with a yellow highlighter
    Make copies
    Submit a copy of your Certification of Trust and a copy of your Declaration of Trust with the Form-4 paperwork and you are good to go.

    I'm sure there are lawyers who would prefer you to have them use their software version for 3x the price tho.

    The rest of your questions are answered on the BATFE website.
     
  3. bluesurf

    bluesurf Portland Active Member

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    I paid $600 for a lawyer in PDX to make me a specific NFA trust. It is nice to be able ask her questions. I thought it would nice to have a lawyer in case you needed something changed down the road. I haven't needed any changes as of the last couple years and it really is just a notarized document.

    If I did it again, I would have used the SilencerCo trust(it wasn't around at the time I needed it). There is not much too it.

    Just get ready to wait for a long time and a "need" to add more cool toys to the trust.:cool:
     
  4. conp435

    conp435 woodinville Active Member

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    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  5. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I am looking into getting a NFA Trust (seems like the way to go) and was looking around for some info. First I saw SilencerCo having a NFA Trust for $130. Seems like a decent deal but wondering if that's just a startup cost and a few legalities.

    - Does the $130 just cover setting up the trust or does it cover amendments as well? You set up any amendments, as you are the trust.

    - Is the Trust through SilencerCo or is it a self sustaining private entity? By that I mean, if SilencerCo goes under, will I have to get a new trust or is it separate from that company? The trust is a legal entity that you are creating. It has nothing to do with silencerco other than them providing you with the template. You will sign it and get it notorized. Its yours.

    - I have a Mega Lower with a 16" 556 barrel currently. I want to get a 300blk 10.5" upper to use with my lower. How does that process work and do I have to fill out a Form 1 or 4? Also how would it work with a Trust? You are MAKING a SBR, so thats a Form 1. With a trust, its very easy and you can do it online.

    - Also if I built a 10.5" upper, can I keep it in the safe with my lower (not used or mounted of course) before my lower is registered as a SBR? NO That is possession of a SBR. If you have a short upper, that CANNOT be used in any legal configuration with the lowers you have, you posses a SBR.

    - If my Mega lower is registered as a SBR can I place the 16" upper on it and sell it as a regular AR YES
    But because you have to get the lower engraved with your trust info, the lower is most likely worthless to anyone else. So don't SBR a lower you might want to get rid of.


    Thanks in advance!

    The Armory section over at ar15 is the best forum I have found for NFA info.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
    IronMonster and bluesurf like this.
  6. Rockys

    Rockys Clark county Member

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    One note on trusts is find one that you can name yourself. A lot of the online places create really long names. Remember that you have to engrave the name of your trust on a form 1 item so the shorter the better.
     
  7. acdodge

    acdodge Hillsboro/ Wilsonville Member

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    Thanks for the info everyone (especially SCARed). Lots of good info to get me started. Definitely didn't know about having to engrave my lower.
     
  8. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Coyote rifle works. I'm still trying to comprehend 600 dollars.
     
  9. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    To answer the rest of the questions. Silencerco fills out the legal forms with your information. You are required to get it notarized. Then it is your trust, nothing to do with whoever set it up, unless you paid 600, then I'd sure as poop hope they cover you for anything stupid that may come up as well as adjusting amendments.

    You will be creating a SBR. That is a form 1. You will have to add the serialized lower you wish to SBR to your trusts amendment prior to submitting to the ATF.

    It is always best practice not to have an unconfigured NFA item in your house. No matter how many pieces it is in spread out in how ever many rooms.

    Once the lower is registered as an SBR it is an SBR. If you wanted to sell it the buyer would be buying an SBR and would have to go through the same crap.

    Seeing as you are creating a SBR using a form 1. You will be required to engrave the receiver with the trusts name and city and state. You can use the manufacturers serial.

    Have fun! And enjoy NFA items, they are a PITA to get, but worth it in the end.
     
  10. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Oh and if your efiling. Make sure to lower your settings on your scanner. The ATF website only takes PDFs of a certain file size. Sometimes hard to do with a multiple page trust document.
     
  11. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    This portion isn't true. It's only a NFA item when configured as such. So sell it as just a lower or slap a 16" upper to it and you can sell it as any other firearm.
     
  12. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Nope. Once it is registered the weapon is always an SBR. No matter how you configure it. That is why you usually put the shortest length possible on the paperwork when filing, as they don't care if you have a 20" barrel on it later on down the road. In their eyes, you have a serialized lower receiver that is attached to a 7.5" barreled upper registered within the ATF database.

    I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there may be consequences selling someone your SBR'd receiver in a rifle configuration to someone not filing a form 4.
     
  13. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    If your registering a SBR, and its in SBR configuration, it doesn't matter what length upper is on it. It can be shorter , it can be longer. You don't need to "put the shortest length possible" on the paperwork. It doesn't matter.

    And YES, take a SBR out of NFA configuration, and it's no longer under the NFA pervue. You can sell it as any other firearm.

    Sigh... as someone who has, I'm assuming, NFA items, it might be worthwhile for you to actually know the NFA laws, and not propagate these internet myths. (read as, before you respond and try to argue against, look up the NFA laws)
     
  14. Rockys

    Rockys Clark county Member

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    Check the atf's website for the facts
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  15. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    ;) I was going to let him look it up. In general, people who do their own research tend to remember it longer.
     
    Rockys likes this.
  16. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Well bubblegum. Read it up. I guess you can legally sell the lower to someone without them going through a transfer and getting their own stamp.

    However the thing is still registered in your name with the ATF as an SBR. I would see what is required to let them know you no longer own it if you sell it as a lower or rifle.

    Sorry guys. Ive only own two NFA items, one is s suppressor and the other is a SBR AR15.

    I guess I figured private selling a lower that's registered would be like that of selling a suppressor.

    Thanks for the push to research.
     
    Dustin Landreth, Rockys and SCARed like this.
  17. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    The ATF recommends sending them a letter stating to remove it from the registry, but it is not required. The instances I know of where that was done, the person received a confirmation letter over a year after originally requesting the removal.