New suppressors at shot show.

[ammoeba]

Unless I'm alone, others around usually don't have them so hearing protection are still required.

As much as I'm tempted to research suppressor options, I keep coming back to that sticking point. They mostly just make sense [to me] for emergency self defense type stuff. Shooting with friends or at the range, which is all I've ever done to-date, makes cans a rather pointless luxury.

I've often wondered what the "real" cost of suppressors is, but always got sidetracked and never looked it up... The typical $800-900 cost seems way out of line with the materials and manufacturing that goes into them. Seeing the two comments earlier in this thread about the non-legislated cost being closer to $100 supports what I figured.

 

[rwadeg311]

...and have a cool rating of zero.

E

Damn! I knew there was a reason to spend $1200 and wait a year!
My "cool rating" is right where it needs to be.
At least that's what the women tell me.

 

[Member 34319]

I used to think silencers were a waste of money.

I figured I'd never own one.

Then last year I ordered two. A 22 and 9mm can.

I've just enjoyed shooting others with them too much.

Now I'm eagerly awaiting the first to come through as personal form 4s have been down to 5-6 months and I'm on month 5.

 

[Boboclown]

...and have a cool rating of zero.

E

I have a STG-58 and an AUG. The only thing I need for cool rating is an AK-9.

 

[rwadeg311]

As much as I'm tempted to research suppressor options, I keep coming back to that sticking point. They mostly just make sense [to me] for emergency self defense type stuff. Shooting with friends or at the range, which is all I've ever done to-date, makes cans a rather pointless luxury.

I've often wondered what the "real" cost of suppressors is, but always got sidetracked and never looked it up... The typical $800-900 cost seems way out of line with the materials and manufacturing that goes into them. Seeing the two comments earlier in this thread about the non-legislated cost being closer to $100 supports what I figured.

As much as I'm tempted to research suppressor options, I keep coming back to that sticking point. They mostly just make sense [to me] for emergency self defense type stuff. Shooting with friends or at the range, which is all I've ever done to-date, makes cans a rather pointless luxury.

I've often wondered what the "real" cost of suppressors is, but always got sidetracked and never looked it up... The typical $800-900 cost seems way out of line with the materials and manufacturing that goes into them. Seeing the two comments earlier in this thread about the non-legislated cost being closer to $100 supports what I figured.

This was kinda my original point. I wasn't really planning on starting a convo on how "cool" suppressors were or how much people liked them or how it was "worth the money and wait"
It was why can't this NOT be an NFA thing. Why can't all these outfits that are manufacturing the cans at least try to make them more accessible. There's no reason a $900 can would drop to $100. The manufacturer still sets the price. But the volume of sales would increase.
Please explain how this (getting cans off the NFA list) would drop the price so dramatically and cost the manufacturer $?

 

[rwadeg311]

Here's another quandary:
How many of you have gone with the 80% lowers and built a "ghost gun" and then applied for a tax stamp?
Seems a little self defeating.

 

[Boboclown]

What factors into cost: 1. Machinery is expensive. 2. Business costs. 3. Requires licensing to make them. 4. Research and development.

Though cool factor is pretty much the only reason I potentially plan on getting one (and only one). None of the rifles I currently have will be getting a can. No real reason to.

 

[rwadeg311]

What factors into cost: 1. Machinery is expensive. 2. Business costs. 3. Requires licensing to make them. 4. Research and development.

Though cool factor is pretty much the only reason I potentially plan on getting one (and only one). None of the rifles I currently have will be getting a can. No real reason to.

Your factors (1-4) have already been done by the manufacturers.
As far as the cool factor, to each his own.
Myself, I have many better things I can do with that money than sit around waiting for our assenine, do nothing government to decide it's time to "allow " me to have something I should be able to own anyway.

 

[Boboclown]

The money they spend is what determines the cost they put on the suppressors. Currently, the market isn't as big as other parts of the firearms market due to the tax and wait time. Due to that, they have to sell higher to make profit. If there wasn't a tax and wait time, the market would probably be bigger so they'd probably be able to decrease the price and sell in higher numbers (probably anyways).

They're just dancing with the devil known as supply and demand. The reason I only want one, is because I see no practical use in spending all that money to have a can on all of my rifles, nor would I want a can on all of them in the first place. To each their own, but its mostly cool factor for a lot of people.

 

[Ura-Ki]

This was kinda my original point. I wasn't really planning on starting a convo on how "cool" suppressors were or how much people liked them or how it was "worth the money and wait"
It was why can't this NOT be an NFA thing. Why can't all these outfits that are manufacturing the cans at least try to make them more accessible. There's no reason a $900 can would drop to $100. The manufacturer still sets the price. But the volume of sales would increase.
Please explain how this (getting cans off the NFA list) would drop the price so dramatically and cost the manufacturer $?

To answer a few of your questions on cost, besides what was said above, one thing would happen right away, you would be able to purchase the needed materials and build your own, as can every one else, so you would see a huge expansion in the types and quality with more and more folks building them, so in reality, right now, the guys that have the licenses and all that have a pretty huge profit margin and a monopoly! Take away just the wait times and the number of sales would climb which would drive the price down a little. Now take them off the NFA list, remove the permission tax and background check, and the numbers would sky rocket! Visiting South Africa on the taxpayers dime, I went into a couple of gun shops and found the average rice for a high qualiy suppressor was about $300 U.S. and no tax or permits required, you pays the purchase price and walks out with a with a shiny new suppressor! The last suppressor I built cost me just over $200 in materials and certain services I could not preform my self, after the Tax and wait period, my total investment was $800 and change, for 3 suppressors!!!
Now the ghost gun part only effects the suppressor ( as long as it's not also an SBR) so the rifle remains "Clean" as it were, as the suppressor is the only part that gets regresterd! There are tons of folks that swap one suppressor to several guns, and that's why the 80% builds are still a good option for those who wish to build them!

 

[11Charlie]

Here's another quandary:
How many of you have gone with the 80% lowers and built a "ghost gun" and then applied for a tax stamp?
Seems a little self defeating.

Not really because my can isn't for a so called evil black rifle!

 

[rwadeg311]

To answer a few of your questions on cost, besides what was said above, one thing would happen right away, you would be able to purchase the needed materials and build your own, as can every one else, so you would see a huge expansion in the types and quality with more and more folks building them, so in reality, right now, the guys that have the licenses and all that have a pretty huge profit margin and a monopoly! Take away just the wait times and the number of sales would climb which would drive the price down a little. Now take them off the NFA list, remove the permission tax and background check, and the numbers would sky rocket! Visiting South Africa on the taxpayers dime, I went into a couple of gun shops and found the average rice for a high qualiy suppressor was about $300 U.S. and no tax or permits required, you pays the purchase price and walks out with a with a shiny new suppressor! The last suppressor I built cost me just over $200 in materials and certain services I could not preform my self, after the Tax and wait period, my total investment was $800 and change, for 3 suppressors!!!
Now the ghost gun part only effects the suppressor ( as long as it's not also an SBR) so the rifle remains "Clean" as it were, as the suppressor is the only part that gets regresterd! There are tons of folks that swap one suppressor to several guns, and that's why the 80% builds are still a good option for those who wish to build them!

Ok. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a background check. I think that's the only way we can do anything firearms related and make the dirty libs happy.
And as far as making suppressors on our own...I'm not advocating that either.
All I'm saying is that if we could just get em off the NFA list everyone that has gone through the background check to buy a firearm or in this case a suppressor should be abel to go into their LGS and pick one up just like buying a pistol or rifle.

 

[Ura-Ki]

In this, I have to disagree! A suppressor is nothing more then a car muffler, yet you don't need to pay the Gooberment a tax and suffer a waiting period to make a trip to the muffler shop to get one replaced, RIGHT! Same thing, only some tool in Gooberment decided that Hollywood "facts" were true life, and there fore too good for you and I to own with out heavy handed GOOBERMENT regulation, and a TAX, and worse, DRACONIAN penalties against you for what? A simple device! Unlike a NFA firearm, a suppressor in and of it's self is not a tool, it's a function, it dose nothing to or for a firearm, It cannot hurt any one, it is not a weapon, it only helps quite one, same as your cars exhaust, so the right to own one is subject to the current whims of said gov. as a form of infringement!
As far as a BCG to purchase, NO WAY, It's not a firearm, therefor, not subject to any regulation of! While your idea may sound well meaning, you are in effect advocating your rights being infringed upon for a simple device no different then a stock, or a forend, or a set of grips, or a bolt knob, or a scope! That's how suppressors SHOULD be treated! And we don't wanna give one more inch to the DAMN Libs and the antis, they already have taken WAY WAY WAY to much from you and I, NO MORE!

Not calling you out here, don't take any of this personal, just know that every inch you give, a mile will they take!

 

[B5Ben]

Its subsonic but its heavy. 280 grains ish . Takes a lot of powder to move that mush weight to 930 fps. Lots of powder lots of boom. Takes a big silencer to soak up that much pow. Anything 9mm is going to be loud. Any silencer in the 45 cal range is going to be loud too. Shoot a 900 fps 45 Colt round through a 45 silencer and you'll have an idea of how loud it will be. Louder than you'd expect.

You really need a big 30 cal silencer with 220-240 grain 30 cal bullets at 950 ish to be really quiet.

I have very little experience with cans and am waiting on 3, the sig srd 22x, srd45, and a hardened arms pinned/welded .223. I guess I'm asking why a .30 rifle can is needed for 250+ grain bullets when a .45 can "should" do the job just fine. It may be slightly louder as more energy is used to get it moving but I don't see why a larger heavier rifle can is needed. They are already rated for 230 grain .45 and are subsonic, so aside from the weight, what's the difference.

 

[Boboclown]

I have very little experience with cans and am waiting on 3, the sig srd 22x, srd45, and a hardened arms pinned/welded .223. I guess I'm asking why a .30 rifle can is needed for 250+ grain bullets when a .45 can "should" do the job just fine. It may be slightly louder as more energy is used to get it moving but I don't see why a larger heavier rifle can is needed. They are already rated for 230 grain .45 and are subsonic, so aside from the weight, what's the difference.

It was a conversation about 9x39. Which is not a pistol round.

 

[wired]

Silencers work best when they are voluminous. Sure you can run just about anything subsonic through a 45 can but just about all 45 silencers are rather small pistol cans and while better than 9mm silencers they are still pretty freakin loud compared to larger volume 30 cal rifle cans. That and the smaller bore cans perform much better. Shoot a quiet can next to a loud can or combination of can and ammo and you will always want the quieter of the two.

Shoot a 230 grain 45 bullet through a 45 silencer at 950 FPS
Then shoot a 230 grain 300 BO through big rifle can at the same speed.

Night and day difference and the 300 BO doesnt drop like a stone past 75 yards..

 

[B5Ben]

It was a conversation about 9x39. Which is not a pistol round.
View attachment 427281

...and I understand that. Most .45 cans can handle .300 BLk so why not your 9x39?

 

[Boboclown]

...and I understand that. Most .45 cans can handle .300 BLk so why not your 9x39?

It wasn't handling it, it was the volume that was being discussed.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I have very little experience with cans and am waiting on 3, the sig srd 22x, srd45, and a hardened arms pinned/welded .223. I guess I'm asking why a .30 rifle can is needed for 250+ grain bullets when a .45 can "should" do the job just fine. It may be slightly louder as more energy is used to get it moving but I don't see why a larger heavier rifle can is needed. They are already rated for 230 grain .45 and are subsonic, so aside from the weight, what's the difference.

I'm no expert in this, but in my much learned Professional experience, I can explain the how and the why! TO use your .30 cal can as an example, it's a function of several parts of the equation that make it work, or not! So, Why a specific can for this cal or any other? First is the openings through the baffles to allow the bullet to pass through, they should be as close to the muzzle inside diameter ( or better yet, the outside diameter of a fired bullet) to allow the internal baffles to trap as much blast gas over pressure and sound energy behind the bullet, ( stripping them from the base of the bullet) Second is the size ( total internal volume, surface area Squared) as applied, a .300 B.O. will have almost 8 times the blast volume of a .45 APC, and even more sound pressure ( Sound pressure is a separate and distinct value on its own, gas over pressure is separate) more powerful chambering's like .308 are WAY WAY WAY more then .45 APC, so the can needs to be bigger and have vastly more internal volume! The idea of super heavy projectiles is to bring the speed of the fired projectile down to Just below the speed of sound, thusly removing most if not all of the sound energy, while the inside volume and baffles will strip away the blast gas energy, and allow it to bleed off slightly slower after the bullet has passed through and exited the nose cap of the can! The more effective a suppressor can contain, control, and slow the two separate energies, the better the total effect and efficiency will be, and it's why I DO NOT believe in the multi caliber cans, if they were actually as effective as they could be, there would be no practical reason for having a multi, this should be a heads up that a prospective can isn't a very good one if it can be used on several vastly different pressure levels! I.E. 5.56 AND .308
Hope this explains things a little for you!

 

[bgdawgrr]

For me, it's not the stamp, it's the wait. It's hard for me to plunk down $800-$1500 for something and wait a year or more. Ludicrous. Would I do it if I could put down a deposit?....sure. I'd pay it off before the wait was over most probably.
Need cans rated for .300 win mag, .22lr and maybe 50BMG rifle
Then a 45 can for my HD gun, maybe a second can upto 45, and of course a .22.
I suppose I could live with 3. Again, pay and wait annoys me so much I buy guns and ammo instead

I do have one question though. How do I thread the barrel of a 454 Casull and what can would you recommend? Seen it done in the movies so with new tech out there......