Oregon New Petition Oregon 2020-008

[Jonnyuma]

It was a public school "educator" that taught my son that, despite what Art. 1, Sec 8 of The Constitution says, welfare entitlement programs are constitutional because of the "General Welfare Clause".

There's a WHOLE lot wrong with that, and it took some doing to get it un-learned.... teachers get used to being the smartest cat in the room and, like judges, they do NOT like or appreciate contradiction.

 

[The Heretic]

I thought America was a Federal Republic where majority does not rule and cannot take away certain unalienable rights?

That is the way it is supposed to work. If we had a judiciary that understood that and the Constitution, and the difference between negative and positive rights, it would work that way more often.

 

[The Heretic]

It was a public school "educator" that taught my son that, despite what Art. 1, Sec 8 of The Constitution says, welfare entitlement programs are constitutional because of the "General Welfare Clause".

There's a WHOLE lot wrong with that, and it took some doing to get it un-learned.... teachers get used to being the smartest cat in the room and, like judges, they do NOT like or appreciate contradiction.

Redefine the word 'welfare' to mean what it means today, and then you have a circular argument.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Redefine the word 'welfare' to mean what it means today, and then you have a circular argument.

Exactly what he tried to do... use the noun welfare as a proper noun Welfare. It's no wonder, either... I found this as Definition #1 in the English Learner's Dictionary:
1: a government program for poor or unemployed people that helps pay for their food, housing, medical costs, etc.

No context or history, no wonder people are so ignorant.

And fer cryin' out loud... the phrase "promote the general welfare" is in the preamble! It's no more a "clause" than the effusive poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty is immigration law.

Democracy Dies in Darkness, but liberalism can only exist in it. Put that on a statue.

 

[alv7722]

States need to be brought to heel...

This is the kind of talk fascists use. States rights are a constitutional right just like the 2nd.

Once again, the articles in the Bill of Rights are Human Rights, or Civil Rights. The States do not legally have the authority to modify or infringe on these rights. Even the liberal 9th Circuit recently confirmed this on an open carry issue in Hawaii. Being an educator is not impressive. Too many (educators) are enamored with Marxist/Communist ideals, and try to indoctrinate our children with such.

2020 IP8 is a positive step to put our runamok liberal legislature, and the Communists supporting IP43-44 in their place, in keeping with the Constitution and B of R.

 

[CombatMechanic]

Once again, the articles in the Bill of Rights are Human Rights, or Civil Rights. The States do not legally have the authority to modify or infringe on these rights. Even the liberal 9th Circuit recently confirmed this on an open carry issue in Hawaii. Being an educator is not impressive. Too many (educators) are enamored with Marxist/Communist ideals, and try to indoctrinate our children with such.

2020 IP8 is a positive step to put our runamok liberal legislature, and the Communists supporting IP43-44 in their place, in keeping with the Constitution and B of R.

Damn right brother! Smash those commie teachers!

 

[EricW]

I'm here.

Me too. Although I should point out that I am not a chief petitioner, but I helped draft this measure. I am an attorney with a deep history in initiative politics (most recently involved in the successful challenge to IP 43). I can spare a little time to answer questions about the measure, but I am not interested in debating natural rights theories with self-proclaimed constitutional scholars (I spent a decade in the leadership of Libertarian Party of Oregon and I no longer have the patience for those endeavors).

 

[alv7722]

As far as your second question I feel I should remind you that the Consititon has changed over the years and it does not require unanimous agreement to ratify Amendments. The 10th is in place to assure that rights given by the Constitution are not the only rights, allowing states to modify laws as their own democracy votes.

Wrong!! The Constitution has not changed, other than the Amendments. What has changed is it's interpretation, by Liberal, activist judges that change its interpretation to their own liking and ideals!! Hope you did not spend your time "educating" such misinformation!! Disagree?? Go read the original, then find a 2018 copy, and point our where they differ!!!!!!

 

[CombatMechanic]

Me too. Although I should point out that I am not a chief petitioner, but I helped draft this measure. I am an attorney with a deep history in initiative politics (most recently involved in the successful challenge to IP 43). I can spare a little time to answer questions about the measure, but I am not interested in debating natural rights theories with self-proclaimed constitutional scholars (I spent a decade in the leadership of Libertarian Party of Oregon and I no longer have the patience for those endeavors).

Me too. Although I should point out that I am not a chief petitioner, but I helped draft this measure. I am an attorney with a deep history in initiative politics (most recently involved in the successful challenge to IP 43). I can spare a little time to answer questions about the measure, but I am not interested in debating natural rights theories with self-proclaimed constitutional scholars (I spent a decade in the leadership of Libertarian Party of Oregon and I no longer have the patience for those endeavors).

Don't worry we won't debate ya , but those of us voting for this thing definitely believe it to be a God given right that no one will take except from our cold dead hands! but we got your back!

 

[3MTA3]

Me too. Although I should point out that I am not a chief petitioner, but I helped draft this measure. I am an attorney with a deep history in initiative politics (most recently involved in the successful challenge to IP 43). I can spare a little time to answer questions about the measure, but I am not interested in debating natural rights theories with self-proclaimed constitutional scholars (I spent a decade in the leadership of Libertarian Party of Oregon and I no longer have the patience for those endeavors).

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your good work! Hopefully we can keep the off topic content contained a bit so people can ask a few questions and get some clarification.

 

[CombatMechanic]

Wrong!! The Constitution has not changed, other than the Amendments. What has changed is it's interpretation, by Liberal, activist judges that change its interpretation to their own liking and ideals!! Hope you did not spend your time "educating" such misinformation!! Disagree?? Go read the original, then find a 2018 copy, and point our where they differ!!!!!!

Hate to agree with a liberal, I mean I really do, but seems there have been quite a few changes to it.

The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

 

[alv7722]

I do not see it as a problem. It's a balance, and a democracy. If the majority by quite a lot wants to change Amendments it is their right given by this constitution to do so through elected representatives, that's democracy.

Our system is NOT a democracy. It is a Representative Republic!! True democracy would simply be mob rule, or "tyranny by the majority". It is protected against in the Constitution and B of R. This is what was attempted with IP43-44.

 

[CountryGent]

Damn right brother! Smash those commie teachers!

Well, not all teachers are "commie(s)". There are at least three active teachers on this board.

 

[bbbass]

Damn right brother! Smash those commie teachers!

As an aside....

Do you rule?

 

[CombatMechanic]

Well, not all teachers are "commie(s)". There are at least three active teachers on this board.

Of course! Too few in our colleges that aren't Brian washed!

 

[CombatMechanic]

As an aside....

Do you rule?

Rule?

 

[bbbass]

Rule?

.... in Hell.

 

[CombatMechanic]

.... in Hell.

Oh haha, no I'm a man of God. Just a tongue and cheek place, I'm in WA.

 

[bbbass]

Oh haha, no I'm a man of God. Just a tongue and cheek place, I'm in WA.

Welcome to NWFA!!!

You might enjoy posting on the new members thread... people would like to greet you!!!

 

[CombatMechanic]

Welcome to NWFA!!!

You might enjoy posting on the new members thread... people would like to greet you!!!

First thing I did!