New hunter….initial rifle questions.

[NobullSKS]

Epic....Hmmmm...not really but funny nevertheless.

So there I was field dressing the last elk I got.
When along comes a game warden.
We get to talkin'...he checks my tag....then asks to see my rifle.
( It was muzzle loading season )
No problem says I....
Then I show him the rifle that I was using :

J.Henry Trade Rifle Circa 1800-1820

• Andy54Hawken
• Dec 12, 2021

That is a original J.Henry Flintlock Trade Rifle..circa 1800 - 1820.
.58 caliber.
The look on his face was priceless....
The hide was made into the jacket I am wearing below.
Andy

Shooting my Hawken Rifle at a friend's place.

• Andy54Hawken
• Nov 25, 2021

That jacket is epic alone.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

That jacket is epic alone.

Thanks....
I wear it often , even with "street clothes".

So there I was....not long into my job at an elementary school , during lunchroom supervision.
It was close to Christmas....
Along comes a 2nd grader...he says :
" Mr.Andy54Hawken...I love your jacket. What is it made from...? "
Without thinking I reply :
"Reindeer"....
At first shocked...then the kid remembered who he was talking to and retorted...
"Oh you are on Santa's naughty list".
Andy

 

[OldBroad44]

With respect to choosing caliber, availability and cost of ammo, especially these days, is an issue. If you go to Midway and do a search for centerfire rifle ammo by caliber, most to least with respect to number they list, that's enlightening. That number reflects some combo of number of manufacturers who make it, types of loads, and overall popularity. For example, they list more different types of .308 than anything else. Then you can check out individual calibers and find and note numbers of reviews and find that while every caliber has expensive choices, .308 and .30-06 have very affordable selections that are widely used by hunters. Many calibers have no very affordable selections or no selections with many reviews showing wide popularity.

I'd suggest you encourage your daughter to choose her specific ammo from among those widely popular among hunters and relatively affordable. Then if you reload for her, do so only to match her commercial load. That way you avoid making her dependent on your time and access to primers, for example.

There are lots of internet articles on good calibers and specific commercial ammos in those calibers for hunting different kinds of game. I'd suggest that if you are hunting deer or anything else your caliber also needs to be suitable for bear, and you should have a bear tag in case a bear tries to take over your kill, or you stumble across a bear and his kill.

My understanding is the .308 was chosen for military use because nearly all ordinary recruits can learn to handle that level of recoil without flinching. Its the heaviest recoiling caliber for which that is true. Your daughter is taller than the average man and stocky you said. (men averaged 5' 8" or so some decades ago by the time you include the NE.) And plenty of WWII recruits were city boys with no firearm experience. If nearly all recruits can handle .308 its a good bet your daughter can too. So if you stick with .308 or calibers with similar or lesser recoil you are probably safe that she will be able to handle it. That doesn't mean she might not find less recoil more enjoyable. And if she could handle 30-06, its definitely more versatile.

 

[echo1]

I thought it was the spousal unit going on the hunt.

Not epic, except to me.
I started to deer hunt in Kali in the '60s with my Portagee bud his brother and uncles, then later on our own. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was more about partying than hunting. Fast forward to 2005 and I give it a go again. I got skunked but the camp took a 4 pointer and a bear opening morning. Couple more years go by and I go out with my new youngster co-worker. He'd kilt a lot of Kali deer. On our first outing together, it had been raining then turned to snow. It was opening morning, and we were walking back to camp with our rifles shouldered when we came across a fork and a spike about 25 yards out. We stopped, they bolted. Then it started to snow hard. My bud said since we didn't shoot, they'd likely stay around, give them some time then we'll come back. We waited until the afternoon and resumed our stalk. The weather really went south when I spotted the same 2 bucks. I put my glass on them just as the forkie turned his back to me and passed the little guy looking at me, who I could see actually had a small fork too. The wind was whipping, and I didn't trust a shot, even though they were only about 50 yards out. The weather got really bad and we broke camp and headed home. I had a scoped SKS then.
Next year, 2008 the same bud and I (who had since become good friends), went a day early before opening of the season. Just ahead of the turn off to the forest service road we needed, 4 deer leisurely strolled out in front of us, a doe, fawn, forked horn and a nice 4 pointer. Good sign. The next morning, opening day, we're slow stalking but spit up out of sight of each other. While in cover, a fork runs right in front of me, too close and too fast for my now old eyes and bones. I hold off trying to track him, reposition myself and wait. About a half hour later the doe and fawn come into my shooting lane followed by the 4 pointer a couple minutes later, just grazing. I put my glass on the guy, Savage 99F .308, Omnivision 2X7X32, about 112 yards slightly downhill...wait, wait...then drill him through the right ear out the left eye...went down to China town My firstest buck in 50 years and my onliest buck to date. My personal benchmark is a 4 point or better, tough in Kali for a weekend warrior. PAX

 

[NobullSKS]

I thought it was the spousal unit going on the hunt.

Not epic, except to me.
I started to deer hunt in Kali in the '60s with my Portagee bud his brother and uncles, then later on our own. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was more about partying than hunting. Fast forward to 2005 and I give it a go again. I got skunked but the camp took a 4 pointer and a bear opening morning. Couple more years go by and I go out with my new youngster co-worker. He'd kilt a lot of Kali deer. On our first outing together, it had been raining then turned to snow. It was opening morning, and we were walking back to camp with our rifles shouldered when we came across a fork and a spike about 25 yards out. We stopped, they bolted. Then it started to snow hard. My bud said since we didn't shoot, they'd likely stay around, give them some time then we'll come back. We waited until the afternoon and resumed our stalk. The weather really went south when I spotted the same 2 bucks. I put my glass on them just as the forkie turned his back to me and passed the little guy looking at me, who I could see actually had a small fork too. The wind was whipping, and I didn't trust a shot, even though they were only about 50 yards out. The weather got really bad and we broke camp and headed home. I had a scoped SKS then.
Next year, 2008 the same bud and I (who had since become good friends), went a day early before opening of the season. Just ahead of the turn off to the forest service road we needed, 4 deer leisurely strolled out in front of us, a doe, fawn, forked horn and a nice 4 pointer. Good sign. The next morning, opening day, we're slow stalking but spit up out of sight of each other. While in cover, a fork runs right in front of me, too close and too fast for my now old eyes and bones. I hold off trying to track him, reposition myself and wait. About a half hour later the doe and fawn come into my shooting lane followed by the 4 pointer a couple minutes later, just grazing. I put my glass on the guy, Savage 99F .308, Omnivision 2X7X32, about 112 yards slightly downhill...wait, wait...then drill him through the right ear out the left eye...went down to China town My firstest buck in 50 years and my onliest buck to date. My personal benchmark is a 4 point or better, tough in Kali for a weekend warrior. PAX

Yes my wife. Grown…. Just been years since she's hunted. Thank for the cool hunting story. Maybe I'll go once or twice for the experience and just donate the meat to a charity.

 

[orygun]

I love the 30-06. It's my favorite.
But I wouldn't recommend it to a smaller framed shooter, especially one that's not a seasoned shooter. It kicks a lot.
My wife shoots a 7mm-08 for deer or elk. It's a smaller gun that fits her well and doesn't kick her back into last week. She also has a .243 that's ready to roll if she chooses.
"We" committed a cardinal sin this year. Things were too busy for us to pay attention to the fact that she hadn't sighted in her gun this year... Should I add that she had a box of different ammunition than she'd ever used?
Didn't matter. Sunday evening, four minutes before the end of legal shooting time, this happened.

 

[echo1]

Yes my wife. Grown…. Just been years since she's hunted. Thank for the cool hunting story. Maybe I'll go once or twice for the experience and just donate the meat to a charity.

That's what I like to see, confidence, already giving the meat away

In my first hunting experience I alluded to, with my bud and his uncles, they went a couple days before opening with camp trailers circled like a wagon train. After the opener, they used dogs to flush out the bucks, or if the cover was too thick they'd sent us kids in so the dogs wouldn't get beat up. They always had deer hangin in camp. In those days there was no "zone", you got a tag and could hunt anywhere in Kali.
Another non-epic tale. Went on my first bow hunt. I had a Ben Person 60# long bow, very Robin Hoodish. Made our way to where we would stand in a hide...waited...heard some rustling, turned, got an arrow ready to draw, it was a doe 10 yards out. A long bow you can't draw and hold (unless you're Hercules), like you can with a compound. So...I take my arrow off the knock...the broad head JUST touched the string, twang it's gone. Rookie bowman, no spare. The closest town 40 miles away...no long bow strings. Live and learn, 2 compound now, PAX

 

[orygun]

I love the 30-06. It's my favorite.
But I wouldn't recommend it to a smaller framed shooter, especially one that's not a seasoned shooter. It kicks a lot.
My wife shoots a 7mm-08 for deer or elk. It's a smaller gun that fits her well and doesn't kick her back into last week. She also has a .243 that's ready to roll if she chooses.
"We" committed a cardinal sin this year. Things were too busy for us to pay attention to the fact that she hadn't sighted in her gun this year... Should I add that she had a box of different ammunition than she'd ever used?
Didn't matter. Sunday evening, four minutes before the end of legal shooting time, this happened.

View attachment 1741417

Since it's a rifle question thread, I should have been more specific about the rifle.
My wife's not real tall (5'3"?). Her dad was smart enough to chop the butt on her .243 and it fit her well. She also had her dad's 308. Both guns are Savage 99s and I would swap the buttstock to which ever rifle she was going to use. Even with the weight of the Savage, she wasn't a real fan of the .308. She could shoot it well enough, but she didn't like it.
The rifle in the picture above is a Ruger Compact in 7mm-08. It's a short action 77MKII, with a shorter LOP and barrel. It used to wear a 2-7x33 Compact Leupold (Vx-II) but now has a VX-R 2-7x33 with the illuminated reticle. She loves everything about the fit and weight of the Ruger. It's not as heavy as the Savage 99s, plus it's short and handy. It's the middle one in the picture below, with her Savage on the right and my 30-06AI on the left for LOP and overall length comparison.

 

[NobullSKS]

Since it's a rifle question thread, I should have been more specific about the rifle.
My wife's not real tall (5'3"?). Her dad was smart enough to chop the butt on her .243 and it fit her well. She also had her dad's 308. Both guns are Savage 99s and I would swap the buttstock to which ever rifle she was going to use. Even with the weight of the Savage, she wasn't a real fan of the .308. She could shoot it well enough, but she didn't like it.
The rifle in the picture above is a Ruger Compact in 7mm-08. It's a short action 77MKII, with a shorter LOP and barrel. It used to wear a 2-7x33 Compact Leupold (Vx-II) but now has a VX-R 2-7x33 with the illuminated reticle. She loves everything about the fit and weight of the Ruger. It's not as heavy as the Savage 99s, plus it's short and handy. It's the middle one in the picture below, with her Savage on the right and my 30-06AI on the left for LOP and overall length comparison.

View attachment 1741670

I like them… especially the lever action. My wife is excited for her friend because it's a pump action 30-06… I think for her she may want to decide what action she'll like better if she's not sprung on the bolt. We're heading to a shop this week sometime so she can get hands on. I'm thinking a bass pro/cabela would have the best window shopping selection. We have a Coastal (farm store) with options but first thought is as many as she can hold wound be a good initial look. Thank you

 

[3MTA3]

I like them… especially the lever action. My wife is excited for her friend because it's a pump action 30-06… I think for her she may want to decide what action she'll like better if she's not sprung on the bolt. We're heading to a shop this week sometime so she can get hands on. I'm thinking a bass pro/cabela would have the best window shopping selection. We have a Coastal (farm store) with options but first thought is as many as she can hold wound be a good initial look. Thank you

If you have Bi-Marts up there they usually have pretty good deals and can order just about anything if it isn't in stock.

 

[NobullSKS]

If you have Bi-Marts up there they usually have pretty good deals and can order just about anything if it isn't in stock.

Closest Bimart is 23 miles away on the other side of the sound. We've got a few options little closer. If we find what she likes, Federal Way discount guns is an awesome place to…. They order just about anything too…. But they'll order it for on initial layaway payment too.

 

[DeanMk]

Howdy….
Never hunted and been invited next year for deer In Idaho.
I'm a bench rest range cowboy hitting paper. I shoot often and working my way down the hand loaded ammo rabbit hole.

My wife though, is the one invited hunting and doesn't shoot as often. I don't have a lot of advice when she's asking about 6.5 PRC or 7mm rem mag bolt guns. It would be a budget hunter….. looking more like Mossberg budget.

Though I do have a .308 AR10 that's getting better and better groups at 100 yards 150 grn interlocks

The only thing I know is that rifle is probably heavier than a polymer bolt gun. The benefit now is we already have the AR10 with a scope and proven reliable and accurate enough. Figured deer are within a 100-200yrds anyway.

These PRCs are popular but looks like Rem mag 7mm has been standing its ground. If she buys a new rifle then I have a new cartridge to play with. But the .308 should be effective enough?

EDIT….. we have access to 30-06 Rem mod760

Help…thoughts… perspective?

We obsess over the guns we like to hunt with because its fun to talk about the "toys", but when it comes down to it, hunting is more about the stalking and canvassing of areas, knowing what to look for and what to be aware of, than what you shoot the deer with.
The gun really just needs to be a competent weapons platform for the task at hand. Nothing more.
That could be a .30-30 lever action, or a Model 70 in .300 Win. Mag.
Parameters that I'm comfortable with are to keep the gun as light as possible. After 5-6 hours of walking around in the woods and/or climbing mountains, that 7.5-8 lb. gun that didn't seem all that heavy being hefted in your living room, has now become a giant lead weight trying hard as hell to dislocate your shoulder and you'll vow to The Gods to never take that gun out of the safe ever again.....or thought's to that effect. If you can keep it around 7lbs. or less, loaded, with scope and sling mounted, then you're doing well.
I like .25 caliber as a bare minimum for bullet size. When you start getting down into the 6mm and .22 cal range, the bullets are generally pretty light (.243 Winchester is the one exception to this rule) and it takes less and less to fracture them into a million pieces. The lighter the bullet, the more precise you have to be with the shot placement and sometimes, conditions just won't allow that. So leave yourself a little lee-way. Personally, I like the 7mm-08, but I wouldn't pass on a .30-30 or a .35 Remington, either.
Scopes can be a boon to a successful hunt. If you can get one with a fairly wide magnification range, that isn't too big or too heavy, you'll have it made. I like 1.5X-2X on the low side. Helps you see through the brush when woods hunting. On the high end 7x-10x can really help you descern whether you're actually shooting at a deer or a moo-cow, at 200-300 yards. As the years go on, you'll learn to appreciate the benefits of a scope more and more.
A good comfortable sling is a benefit, too. Keeps your hands off the receiver and that ensures the bluing won't get worn off prematurely (I'm sure you've seen older lever actions that had an unusual amount of wear on the bluing around the receiver. That's why!). It can free up your hands when you're trying to climb a steep slope and they can also help you steady the rifle when it comes time to take the shot, especially shooting off-handed. Wrap that sling around the elbow of the hand that's holding the fore end part of the stock and it will give you something to brace against when nothing else is available. That really works, too!
Other things to think about...
Warm clothes that breathe and comfortable boots are a plus. I imagine clothing available today is noticably lighter than the classic red and black wool jackets and canvas rain gear I wore as a kid....and the next time you finish a loaf of bread, don't throw the bag away. Fold it up and take it with you on the hunting trip. If you need to sit down and take a rest, pull the bag out of your pocket and lay it on the wet ground, then sit on the bag. Helps keep your tushy warm and dry. A wet tushy can really suck the life out of you at times. Seriously! Also, if you run across some delectble mushrooms while you're out, maybe that will be the trophy you end up bringing home....and now you have this handy bread bag to put them in!
I swear, best trick my dad ever taught me. Keep a folded up bread bag in your back pocket. Remember that one. (also keep the left over drippings from a roasted duck or goose in a container and let it cool. Best thing you can do for leather hunting boots is to slather some of that goose grease on them)
When you're out on the hunt, keep quiet and speak in low tones. Deer have very acute hearing and can hear a loud whisper, or the snapping of a twig you stepped on, from across the gorge.
If your friend knows anything about the area you'll be hunting in, listen to and heed what they have to say. If they tell you to plant yourself next to that big rock and keep an eye on a certain area, even if you don't think its a good idea, just do it. They know the area better than you do and they're just working in your best interest.
Before you take the shot, be sure of what it is you're shooting at. Use your scope first. If you don't have one, whip out the binoculars before you whip out the gun. Be sure. This is imperitive.
Lastly, patience. LOTS and LOTS of patience. You may not even see a deer. I remember inviting a friend to go hunting with me once. I found out, as we were leaving, that he'd never hunted before. Well, long story short, we got skunked and didn't even see any tracks, but he got impatient and shot a squirrel with his dad's .30-30 because he thought hunting was all about shooting the gun, and after a whole day of just walking around, he just wanted to shoot the gun. After he did that, we headed back to the truck and went home. Because once you take that shot, everything in 20 square miles is gonna know where you're at and what you're all about and they're ALL going to skeeee-daddle their hieny's so far away you won't see them until next season....maybe.
So enjoy the hike and don't be too concerned with shooting the gun. A "hike" may be all you end up doing.
Otherwise, enjoy yourselves and the time you two get to spend in the outdoors.
Good luck.

 

[bbbass]

Since it's a rifle question thread, I should have been more specific about the rifle.
My wife's not real tall (5'3"?). Her dad was smart enough to chop the butt on her .243 and it fit her well. She also had her dad's 308. Both guns are Savage 99s and I would swap the buttstock to which ever rifle she was going to use. Even with the weight of the Savage, she wasn't a real fan of the .308. She could shoot it well enough, but she didn't like it.
The rifle in the picture above is a Ruger Compact in 7mm-08. It's a short action 77MKII, with a shorter LOP and barrel. It used to wear a 2-7x33 Compact Leupold (Vx-II) but now has a VX-R 2-7x33 with the illuminated reticle. She loves everything about the fit and weight of the Ruger. It's not as heavy as the Savage 99s, plus it's short and handy. It's the middle one in the picture below, with her Savage on the right and my 30-06AI on the left for LOP and overall length comparison.

View attachment 1741670

I shot a .308 Savage 99 ONE TIME... being a longer armed shooter, it kicked me in the face like a donkey!!

I like them… especially the lever action. My wife is excited for her friend because it's a pump action 30-06… I think for her she may want to decide what action she'll like better if she's not sprung on the bolt. We're heading to a shop this week sometime so she can get hands on. I'm thinking a bass pro/cabela would have the best window shopping selection. We have a Coastal (farm store) with options but first thought is as many as she can hold wound be a good initial look. Thank you

Remington made an auto loader center fire rifle, ... Model 742 Woodsmaster I think (replaced by the model 7400 and the 750). Heavier to carry, but lighter recoil. One of my buds has one in 30-06 and has killed a bunch of elk with it.

 

[Bobbygun]

I shot a .308 Savage 99 ONE TIME... being a longer armed shooter, it kicked me in the face like a donkey!!

My dad left me a .308 Savage 99 Featherweight. It is a pleasure to CARRY. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[DeanMk]

I shot a .308 Savage 99 ONE TIME... being a longer armed shooter, it kicked me in the face like a donkey!!

Sounds like what I went through with my 20 gauge, although the kick from that rifle was probably magnitudes worse.
Did it already have a rubber butt pad on it?
I put a Limb Saver on my 20 gauge. Made all the difference in the world.
Not only did it soak up some of the recoil, it also lengthened the LoP by about an inch and a half and that made up the gap I needed to mount the gun properly.

 

[bbbass]

Sounds like what I went through with my 20 gauge, although the kick from that rifle was probably magnitudes worse.
Did it already have a rubber butt pad on it?
I put a Limb Saver on my 20 gauge. Made all the difference in the world.
Not only did it soak up some of the recoil, it also lengthened the LoP by about an inch and a half and that made up the gap I needed to mount the gun properly.

The problem was not that it kicked against my shoulder, it was that it slapped the dogsnot out of my face. The recoil went up as well as back, and I've always got my cheek welded to the stock, sooooooooooooo... ouch.

 

[DeanMk]

The problem was not that it kicked against my shoulder, it was that it slapped the dogsnot out of my face. The recoil went up as well as back, and I've always got my cheek welded to the stock, sooooooooooooo... ouch.

Are you thinking bad butt stock ergonomics?

 

[bbbass]

Are you thinking bad butt stock ergonomics?

It's been a long time, but I think it was a bit of several things. Not sure the ergonomics would be a problem for anyone but me.

Butt yeah, that hard butt plate, the light rifle, the heavier cartridge compared to their .243 all contribute to felt recoil. I think it was prolly not a great idea to make that rifle in .308.

 

[lwarner]

Why do men need larger cartridges to kill deer than women do?



Bruce

A woman's ego isn't delusional enough to withstand the recoil.

 

[Xaevian]

A woman's ego isn't delusional enough to withstand the recoil.

And anecdotally better shots!