New dillon dies, hourglassing brass?

[Sfc Jack]

My new dillion carbide 9mm sizer is hour glassing the brass.
Ive adjusted / backed off to where they just slip into the case gage.
Tried on all different brass, shot out of different guns...
I setup my old rcbs other than a couple of scratches it isn't hourglassed...
Anyone have suggestions??

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[Longwalkhome]

Hour glass or wasp waste is done by the die maker to insure a bullet can't be pushed back into the case as it's run through the gun. Its a taper crimp of sorts. In the past the die makers didn't get it quite right and the bullet would get pushed back during cycling and create high pressure problems.

Dillion is top dollar stuff and you pay top dollar for it.

 

[rob1516]

pic?

 

[Sfc Jack]

Can't really get a good pic, its the bottom 1/4 is sunk in..

 

[Longwalkhome]

9mm is a tapered case.

 

[Sfc Jack]

Thanks for all the info and giving me a better understanding, just never seen this before...

 

[rob1516]

That is a weird shape on the case.

 

[Mikej]

I take it you haven't seated bullets yet? You'll be seeing the base of the bullet bulging the brass. By varying degrees depending on the brass maker. Some is thinner walled/some thicker. Or, some softer and some stiffer. You'll notice on the down stroke. I've never had an issue with the bulge. However, depending on your projectile OAL may need to vary from your book recommendations due to the length of the bullets bearing surface getting into the lands. "Plunk" test in the barrel or course.

 

[po18guy]

A visible wasp-waist between bullet and case head will not affect function. Conversely, a slight bulge indeed can. Some dies will provide almost straight walls, but those are better suited for single-stage presses. Dillon most likely errs on the side of reliable chambering and extraction over appearance. Nevertheless, the pressure at the moment of firing instantly expands the case against the chamber walls. So, it is mostly a moot point.

There must be one or two, but progressive presses are not generally used by competitive target/long range shooters. They are made to crank out max ammo in minimum time. You can adjust your expanding die to expand the case only to the seating depth of the particular bullet you are using. This can help with bullet setback since the bullet, once seated, is bumping up against that narrowing of the case. It can help a bit if you set the depth carefully, but a taper crimp is best.

 

[dangerranger60]

I'm not an expert on loading 9mm. They are usually cheap enough that I buy new. But this last 18 months or so I have had to break out an old die set and make my own or not shoot.
I had the same problem of the die undersizing the brass, and then when seating the bullet I could see the bullet expanding the brass back to back to bullet size. Everyone said it would not matter and would shot just fine, But they looked like they came from "Bubba's Basement Reloading Emporium!"
They were right, the ammo shot just fine. But I could not turn out ammo that looked like that!
It took me awhile using a caliper to dial in the resizing die to give the right taper and not undersized. Now my handloads look just like they came from the factory and shoot as well or better.
The depth adjustment is a fairly coarse thread, so had to play with it through a few cases to get it right. But now I'm happy with what comes out of the press!
With copper plated or Cup and core bullets, and a drop of sealant no one can tell they are reloaded! DR

 

[po18guy]

As well, different lots and different formulations of the casing brass have different amounts of "spring back" once sized. The softer brasses would tend not to spring back to their former shape after sizing.

 

[Mikej]

I'm not an expert on loading 9mm. They are usually cheap enough that I buy new. But this last 18 months or so I have had to break out an old die set and make my own or not shoot.
I had the same problem of the die undersizing the brass, and then when seating the bullet I could see the bullet expanding the brass back to back to bullet size. Everyone said it would not matter and would shot just fine, But they looked like they came from "Bubba's Basement Reloading Emporium!"
They were right, the ammo shot just fine. But I could not turn out ammo that looked like that!
It took me awhile using a caliper to dial in the resizing die to give the right taper and not undersized. Now my handloads look just like they came from the factory and shoot as well or better.
The depth adjustment is a fairly coarse thread, so had to play with it through a few cases to get it right. But now I'm happy with what comes out of the press!
With copper plated or Cup and core bullets, and a drop of sealant no one can tell they are reloaded! DR

You know, I never though about backing out the sizing die to try and eliminate the bulge from the bullet? Not sure it really matters unless you're entering finished rounds in some kind of beauty contest. This last batch of 400 or so cases I processed I did touch the lube pad with my finger every 4-5 cases to make sizing easier.

 

[SCLU]

You are fine.
the mouth springs open more as it's thinner and doesn't hold shape as much as the lower portion of the case. this gives the appearance.

 

[Gonzales]

Are you using used brass? What are the headstamps of your brass?
If it is used brass, you can try a bulge buster. I run all my range pickup through a bulge buster one time. And the Lee App press can make quick work of the task.
Here is a YouTube video. Not a lot of detail, but it show the process.

 

[bcp]

Is this a carbide die, in which only the carbide ring does any sizing? The case, being tapered, may be sized too much near the base in order to size the mouth correctly.

Drawing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum#/media/File:9x19mm_Parabellum.svg

Bruce

 

[Gonzales]

I found an image on the interwebs. This is what to expect with your dillon 9mm die.

 

[Gonzales]

I'm tying to remember what die I finally went with. Best case was with a non-carbide Redding. Then the dies not designed for a progressive press. They tend to have a lot of taper at the die body opening to ensure the case always feeds. These dies don't size down far enough. Your dillon die is a prime example. I think I finally went with a carbide Redding, but the Lee die was ok. I'll have to check.

 

[marcusp323]

When I was loading 9mm, my ammo always looked like the above photo. Never has a lick of problems with function in any guns I used them in.

 

[Sfc Jack]

That's what im coming up with the image that Gonzales posted.
Ive backed off the sizing die, but im not happy with the dillon die.
I just ordered another rcbs carbide.
I really appreciate all the knowledge and the responses thanks everyone...

 

[po18guy]

On tapered cases, such as 9mm and .30 carbine, I believe the advice is to still lube every few cases to prevent potential case sticking. The RCBS and Dillon websites should be able to clear that up.