Need help with Gold Dot loads...

[po18guy]

A load toward or at the bottom (or possibly below the bottom) of the recommended load range for said cartridge.

We need (OK, "I" need) a tongue-in-cheek emoticon...

 

[DizzyJ]

We need (OK, "I" need) a tongue-in-cheek emoticon...

Usually I catch that stuff.
Long day I guess.

 

[Mikej]

OK, so what's a "low pressure load"? Not real familiar with those...

I KNOW! I KNOW! LOL Low pressure referring to general running pressure of a carriage. A mid range 9mm runs at higher pressure than a mid range .45 acp, and same with .40cal to .38 special. Even though it's in the book, some powders are going to be less than ideal in lower pressure loads. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[daved20319]

Looks like this thread has taken on a life of its own . Sorry for not checking back in sooner, been a busy week. So a couple of things. Yeah, by now I think it's obvious I was asking about .45 ACP loads. As to work hardening, brass was all once fired Starline, although the original firing was in a different pistol. I was also reading the soot as low pressure, which seemed odd to me. As stated loads weren't max, but were well about the mid point of the Speer load data, i.e. range for the 200's was 6.1-8.1 gr., I loaded 6.5, 7.0, and 7.5, which should have given me a velocity in the 900's, what I got was below book for a minimum load. Speer doesn't list test specs in their online data, so I don't know how far I deviated, but most .45 ACP loads I've seen are based on a 5" barrel, mine is 1" shorter, so I could see being ~50 FPS below published data. Primers were LPP, either CCI or FGMM. Anyway, appreciate all the input, and will be trying some W231/HP38 on the next round. Later.

Dave

 

[Dr Prepper]

Yeah like I said I usually got up to and a little past max just to make sure I actually top out and know what that limit is.

 

[po18guy]

10% below max and work up "used to be" the standard. That would be about 7.3 and up from there. I would say that your pressures are low enough that the case is not folly expanding against the chamber and thus some blow by.

I maintain a variety of manuals since, as good as they are, reloading mileage varies.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Always used and was very happy with ww231 in .45ACP.

 

[Local Loader]

I've tried both and found True Blue to work better than HP-38 especially for shorter barrels.

 

[lcb97269]

OK, so what's a "low pressure load"? Not real familiar with those...

Not enough powder is the correct answer. Or possibly wrong powder. Hey yourself a Lyman manual.

 

[lcb97269]

Not enough powder is the correct answer. Or possibly wrong powder. Hey yourself a Lyman manual.

That is get yourself a Lyman manual. Get the rest when you have a few more bucks.

 

[daved20319]

That is get yourself a Lyman manual. Get the rest when you have a few more bucks.

Manuals aren't my issue, I have 5 paper manuals, 2 digitals, one of those is the latest Lyman, plus multiple links to online data, and I will generally go through the lot before starting something new. Was trying to minimize component use on this round, while looking for something close to factory ammo, so did an abbreviated test, and avoided max charges. But I was also using almost the slowest pistol powder I have on hand, I'm thinking that might have been my primary mistake. I may do another abbreviated test with the original powder at max charger per Speer, as well as a batch using HP 38. Gold Dots are expensive bullets, I don't want to waste any more than I have too just on load testing. And I do still have a partial box of 185 gr. GD factory ammo, I'll run some of that over the chrono on my next trip as well, see what they actually produce out of the Beretta. Will post more if something interesting/weird turns up, later.

Dave

 

[po18guy]

Not enough powder is the correct answer. Or possibly wrong powder. Hey yourself a Lyman manual.

That was tongue-in-cheek, but no smiley for that.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Looks like this thread has taken on a life of its own . Sorry for not checking back in sooner, been a busy week. So a couple of things. Yeah, by now I think it's obvious I was asking about .45 ACP loads. As to work hardening, brass was all once fired Starline, although the original firing was in a different pistol. I was also reading the soot as low pressure, which seemed odd to me. As stated loads weren't max, but were well about the mid point of the Speer load data, i.e. range for the 200's was 6.1-8.1 gr., I loaded 6.5, 7.0, and 7.5, which should have given me a velocity in the 900's, what I got was below book for a minimum load. Speer doesn't list test specs in their online data, so I don't know how far I deviated, but most .45 ACP loads I've seen are based on a 5" barrel, mine is 1" shorter, so I could see being ~50 FPS below published data. Primers were LPP, either CCI or FGMM. Anyway, appreciate all the input, and will be trying some W231/HP38 on the next round. Later.

Dave

Well if you already did the majority of the work, I'd go ahead and finish them up to final max and maybe past. I know they are expensive but it should only be what 10-15 more rounds tested Maybe 2-3 more charges?
Unless that is you just don't have enough for your new run with HP38 etc. It sounds like you are hinting at the fact you already have a load worked up for that powder or are just heading straight to max charge. Idk to me it would be worth the lost $ just so I absolutely know, leaving it in answered would drive me crazy.

 

[lcb97269]

Manuals aren't my issue, I have 5 paper manuals, 2 digitals, one of those is the latest Lyman, plus multiple links to online data, and I will generally go through the lot before starting something new. Was trying to minimize component use on this round, while looking for something close to factory ammo, so did an abbreviated test, and avoided max charges. But I was also using almost the slowest pistol powder I have on hand, I'm thinking that might have been my primary mistake. I may do another abbreviated test with the original powder at max charger per Speer, as well as a batch using HP 38. Gold Dots are expensive bullets, I don't want to waste any more than I have too just on load testing. And I do still have a partial box of 185 gr. GD factory ammo, I'll run some of that over the chrono on my next trip as well, see what they actually produce out of the Beretta. Will post more if something interesting/weird turns up, later.

Dave

They use the same load as any other bullet of the same weight.

 

[lcb97269]

So I have a box each of Gold Dots bullets, 185, 200, and 230 gr. Finally got around to putting some test loads together, the goal being to duplicate factory loads, or at least get close. For the velocity I was after, CFE Pistol was the best choice of the powders I have on hand, Sierra data says I should be able to get close to factory ammo without having to resort to max loads. So much for the published data .

As stated, I was running below max charge weight with all three bullet weights, but even my heaviest charges were giving velocities at or below what the data showed for the starting charge. Not only that, but the cases were coming out REALLY sooty, looked like they'd been candled, and that was true of pretty much all charge weights. Only variable was bullet and charge weight, otherwise all the same brass, primers, and seating depth, with a light crimp using a Lee carbide FCD. Pistol is a Beretta PX 4 Storm full size, 4" barrel. Had no function issues of any sort, just really dirty brass and low velocities.

So what did I screw up? As stated, I avoided max charges, but I was well into the upper half of the range. I always thought sooty brass was either too low a charge weight, low pressure caused by insufficient crimp/case tension, or just a dirty burning powder, although that's never been an issue for me with any of the CFE powders. My plan (for now) is to re-run the max charges I used before, but with more crimp, see if that helps. However, any thoughts or suggestions ya'll might have would be much appreciated. Later.

Dave

 

[lcb97269]

They use the same load as any other bullet of the same weight.

Sooty loads tend to be under powered, and or from a blowback gun.

 

[lcb97269]

Hey I totally hear him 100% I hand load specifically to load to max. I don't even reload .45acp. Historically I hate .45acp. I reload 460 Rowland ONLY. .45 is a waste. Not even good for practice..

Load for accuracy. Anyone who loads for the max without accuracy, doesn't shoot competition. /45 acp is more accurate than most can do with it because they don't practice a few thousand rounds a year.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Load for accuracy. Anyone who loads for the max without accuracy, doesn't shoot competition. /45 acp is more accurate than most can do with it because they don't practice a few thousand rounds a year.

Yes sorry, thanks for clarification. I load up to and make sure I hit max and probably slightly over as I think a lot of books are somewhat conservative these days (depending on the book obviously) and then once done I pick the best group or maybe second best group if they are comparable. I'm willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of accuracy for speed. The beat loads usually are never max, from what I've seen so far in my own loads. But I am fairly new at this there's plenty of time to prove that out the other way, time will tell.