MOA Accuracy vs Investment to Get There

[arakboss]

Its a proven fact that many guys think they have sub moa rifles, when in fact, they dont. Shoot some 10 shot groups and get back to me on this.

Pick a rifle that you feel is a solid 1 MOA model out of the box. Let's say it cost $700. What would you be willing to spend in addition to the purchase price of the rifle to cut the groups (whichever way you want to measure them) in half?

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Savage 12FV 308 for example.

any savage rifle really

 

[arakboss]

Unless you have developed some significant skill at marksmanship, the majority of factory rifle/sight/ammo systems will out perform you. Working on developing a higher level of physical conditioning and marksmanship fundamentals will pay off far more than dropping money for that additional 1/4 minute accuracy.

That will definitely be the case in my situation.

 

[No_Regerts]

Target shooting is the purpose.

Are you trying to hit a 5 inch x at 1000 or a torso silhouette? Makes a big difference.

 

[arakboss]

Consistent 1" group at 100 yards, extreme spread measured.

This would be my assumption for the average recreational target shooter. I understand the competition shooters might not share this view.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

puttin the big game down or making the steel ring is my goal.

 

[arakboss]

Are you trying to hit a 5 inch x at 1000 or a torso silhouette? Makes a big difference.

300 yards is max distance for now just looking for the best groups I can get.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

300 yards is max distance for now just looking for the best groups I can get.

theres a handful of guys here with tikkas that'll shoot amazing groups at 300 yards.

might as well buy a tikka

 

[No_Regerts]

Pick a rifle that you feel is a solid 1 MOA model out of the box. Let's say it cost $700. What would you be willing to spend in addition to the purchase price of the rifle to cut the groups (whichever way you want to measure them) in half?

I make sure everything is torqued right, and shoot it with a reliable scope. If it shoots well, leave it alone. I will generally bed every bolt action I buy. I play with barrel pressure because not all guns do well floated. If I find that it shoots better with pressure, Ill build the pressure point with epoxy. If it shoots better floated, I float it. We aren't into this more than $30 at this point. I will even restock to a laid-up fiberglass stock for an additional $300 to $600 depending on jow important it is that it shoot well.

I would go further to clean up a barrel crown. Now we are looking into doubling the original purchase price of the gun.

If you're not into doing those things, maybe you wouldn't go that far. A rifle, to me, is a puzzle to solve and thats what I like to do. Seems like many modern bolt actions, there is less need.

 

[No_Regerts]

300 yards is max distance for now just looking for the best groups I can get.

If you make sure the crown isn't screwed uo and everything is torqued properly, I'd go as far as bedding it and playing with forend pressure. All thats doable for $30 if you do it yourself.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

If you make sure the crown isn't screwed uo and everything is torqued properly, I'd go as far as bedding it and playing with forend pressure. All thats doable for $30 if you do it yourself.

ive seen JB weld bedding before

 

[slimmer13]

Pick a rifle that you feel is a solid 1 MOA model out of the box. Let's say it cost $700. What would you be willing to spend in addition to the purchase price of the rifle to cut the groups (whichever way you want to measure them) in half?

I wouldn't. I dont have, nor do alot of guys have the skill set to consistently shoot MOA, let alone half that, so why invest in something I couldn't utilize?

Only when my skills surpass the inherent accuracy of a rifle, would I consider upgrading.

And I'm not talking about strapping it into a lead sled, I'm talking about actually shooting the rifle.

 

[User 1234]

I really don't care about MOA accuracy. For the shooting I realistically do and the ranges available to me, a 6" group at 300 yards is fine. I'd rather spend money on things that might be banned in the next ten years than trying to upgrade a bolt action from good to excellent.

 

[Kruel J]

This would be my assumption for the average recreational target shooter. I understand the competition shooters might not share this view.

1MOA is 1MOA. Regardless of the gun or the shooter. Of course, long range competitors are looking for a lot better than that, but 1MOA is a measurement plain and simple.

 

[No_Regerts]

I wouldn't. I dont have, nor do alot of guys have the skill set to consistently shoot MOA, let alone half that, so why invest in something I couldn't utilize?

Only when my skills surpass the inherent accuracy of a rifle, would I consider upgrading.

And I'm not talking about strapping it into a lead sled, I'm talking about actually shooting the rifle.

Yes and no. Giving a blind guy a Swarovski scope makes no sense. But giving somone with potential bad tools doesn't help. I wouldn't necessarily chase itty bitty groups at first, but I'd want the rifle to be consistent by eliminating some basic culprits. $600 McMillan stock, maybe not. $20 or $30 worth of epoxy, popsicle sticks, q-tips and release agent? Yep.

 

[Kruel J]

Its almost a unicorn. 3 shots into an inch at 100, to me, is not a proven MOA gun at 100. If you shoot 10 groups of 3 and one group is .5, you dont have a .5 MOA rifle.

10 cold bore shots into 1 inch at 100 would convince me, but if that gun shoots a 2.1 inch group at 200, its not MOA at 200.

Well, there's always that.

 

[No_Regerts]

Well, there's always that.

Its like that 270 we shot. 3/4 inch 3-shot group at 300 yards with Core-lokts? Bonafide .25 MOA rifle!

 

[Kruel J]

Its like that 270 we shot. 3/4 inch 3-shot group at 300 yards with Core-lokts? Bonafide .25 MOA rifle!

LOL! Yeah, my original answer wasn't so good. Working and posting. I definitely didn't mean 3 or 5 shots confirms an MOA setup.

 

[slimmer13]

Yes and no. Giving a blind guy a Swarovski scope makes no sense. But giving somone with potential bad tools doesn't help. I wouldn't necessarily chase itty bitty groups at first, but I'd want the rifle to be consistent by eliminating some basic culprits. $600 McMillan stock, maybe not. $20 or $30 worth of epoxy, popsicle sticks, q-tips and release agent? Yep.

I agree, and I did just that with my RAP.

I struggle with this stuff myself. I've messed around with F class a few times and I've never seen someone shoot a perfect score which would be around MOA at 300 and 600 yds. If you can get by with only dropping 2 or three points, you will usually win. I can shoot pretty close to MOA at 100. Figuring out the variables to extend MOA accuracy to longer distances interest me more than trying to cut MOA at 100.

 

[74bronco]

invest in good glass if needed , a cheap 3x9x40 with a large reticle isnt going to help groups, and a good trigger job or aftermarket trigger can sure go a long way in helping groups also,

i picked up a couple of new cheap stainless savage axis xp combos in 6.5 creed just before xmas , finale cost 209.99 , they shot ok as is for hunting , right around that 1-1.25 moa area with reloads dialed in , took one and added a 6x24x50 vortex i had and added a accu trigger i had on a another savage, long story short , groups for that gun shrunk to well under 1 moa 5 shot groups with tuned reloads. would i go buy better glass for the other rifle, not sure , the stock junk 3x9 scope will still kill deer or elk out to 300. but it was a fun experiment just to see how much it improved a 210$ gun