JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
invest in good glass if needed , a cheap 3x9x40 with a large reticle isnt going to help groups, and a good trigger job or aftermarket trigger can sure go a long way in helping groups also,

i picked up a couple of cheap stainless savage axis xp combos in 6.5 creed just before xmas , finale cost 209.99 , they shot ok as is for hunting , right around that 1-1.25 moa area with reloads dialed in , took one and added a 6x24x50 vortex i had and added a accu trigger i had on a another savage, long story short , groups for that gun shrunk to well under 1 moa 5 shot groups with tuned reloads. would i go buy better glass for the other rifle, not sure , the stock junk 3x9 scope will still kill deer or elk out to 300. but it was a fun experiment just to see how much it improved a 210$ gun

Glass and triggers dont make a rifle any more accurate. They just help you interface with it to better reach its potential. Just depends what we are talking about here I guess.
 
I am not an expert from what I see you are asking a hypothetical question.

You must take everything about the gun into consideration. Budget rifles, and "lower priced" rifles have wider tolerances. High end built firearms pull those tolerances down considerably. That is why they cost a lot more. Materials used (low-end vs high-end), hand built/fitted vs mass machined, etc.

If you want to spend little for a "budget rifle" you'll need to spend a ton of $$$ to get all of the tolerances reduced. If you do your research and spend the money on better built, you'll be on the path of needing to just working on YOUR nuances - not chasing anything that the firearm might be doing.

Once you get a decent built rifle, you'd be better off investing in reloading. You will also need to know EXACTLY what works best for your barrel. You'll need to find the harmonic (or acoustic wave) of your barrel. (Long Range Shooting: Barrel Vibration & Accuracy - The Loadout Room)

Then you'll need to sort by weight, and measure every single shell you have, and put them into "piles". (The internal area of a shell plays on how much area there is for pressure build up. This affects how your bullet starts out of your chamber and down the barrel).

Then you will need to measure and weigh each of your bullets and put them into "piles".

Then you'll have to work loads that work EXACTLY for your rifle and barrel. Specifically EXACLTY how many grains of powder per each "set up" of shell/bullet combination. You'll also need to figure out what powder works best for your various combinations (of shells and bullets).

Then you will need to load each and every load the exact same. Each and every round that you've loaded will need to be the exact same.

How far are you looking at shooting? Caliber, bullet weight, twist rate, etc all play a roll in this too.

Then you'll need to go someplace that has the exact temp, humidity, pressure, wind, etc. each and every time you shoot.

The question becomes, what are YOU willing to spend, and do, to bring your rifle down in MOA?

There is a saying "buy once, cry once". That is true for firearm and optics.

There is a lot more than just "how much to spend on a rifle to get the best MOA".

That's my $0.02.

YMMV
 
How do you decide what accuracy is worth cost wise in a particular rifle? For example if you purchase a budget hunting rifle and it achieves 1 MOA out of the box with an ammo it likes, how do you decide how much to spend to cut that down to 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA or even one ragged hole?

Just my .02, but a trigger upgrade is not terribly expensive.. and produces some good results. That, and using match grade ammo.
 
AMT , you forgot seating depth, neck tension, bullet runout, to complicate things further lol


That is what I was meaning that they need to work on a combination that works exactly for your particular rifle. And each load needs to be exactly the same.

:s0155:
 
There is a distinct difference between what you spend depending on your needs. For instance, as a non-competition shooter, I do the low-hanging fruit upgrades to squeeze the most out of what I've bought, but I'm not going to try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If I was a competition shooter, I'd choose one of the best starting options and go from there. Your purchase choices are more dependent on what you, as an individual, are comfortable spending and how invested you are in the activity. If I wanted to do precision 22lr shooting, would I start with a 10/22 and sink $200 into it, $1500 in it, or would I start with an Anschutz that was good to go out of the box? People go all routes depending on their finances and desires. All of these are very personal choices that only the individual can answer.

Then again, I mostly shoot sub 100 yards at reactive targets for fun so . . .
 
There are a few things I would try with a bolt action rifle, and for the most part they are free or close to it. Floating the barrel is worth a try if it isn't already floated...just sand off the bump at the end of the stock channel. It can improve accuracy but it can also make it worse. (Easy enough to put the bump back in.)

Bedding the action to the stock is worth the effort for sure...maybe $30 in material if you do it yourself. This is the number one thing to improve accuracy and usually does work.

Some times you can lighten and improve the trigger on your own, and I have paid up to $50 for a gunsmith to do the same thing. A better trigger won't make a gun more accurate though but can help you shoot it better.

In my opinion the accuracy potential of any rifle comes down to the barrel. You get a pig of a barrel and no amount of lipstick will make it shoot better. If I have a hunting rifle with a good stock and action with a barrel that won't shoot, I would be willing to spend the $500 or so it would take to buy a high quality cut rifle barrel and have it chambered. With a good bed job it should be 1/2 MOA and maybe a little better.

Buy a Tikka to begin with though...much simpler that way. They shoot great and are nice quality rifles. Savages can be quite accurate too, but quality can be pretty average in my opinion.

BTW - I think a lot of you guys are better shots than you think - your guns are the limiting factor not you. I have a couple of rifles anyone can shoot 1/4 inch groups with. My daughter did it the first time she ever shot a rifle. This is off a two piece rest and a bench of course. If you can hold the crosshairs steady on an aiming point and don't jerk the trigger...
 
All of my Savage rifles shoot sub moa 10 shot groups. The most expensive one (12FV) cost me $384.00. Its wearing a $300.00 scope that i trust its flawless tracking out to 800 yards. Contrary to popular belief, you dont need to spend an arm and a leg for good accuracy.
 
Dear og poster ... In a budget hunting rifle you best bet and most cost affective is going to be to reload for it ... Next would be a stock and triggar job ... But if your shooting sub moa with factory ammo then gun could and would shoot hole threw hole if you improve your shooting
 
Question in line with 'what does moa accuracy mean' idea:
I have a semi-auto AR10 pattern rifle chambered in .308.
I can go to the range with 100 rounds in 5 magazines and shoot those rounds within 20 minutes. The target has a solid hole that is pear shaped where the bottom is golf ball size and the top of the hole is about .5" wide and up to an inch above center of the main group.
I assume this is vertical dispersion as my barrel heats up.
What I want to know is after 100 rounds in a short period of time, am I moa? I can put sequential groups of 5 rounds within an inch, but after 100 rounds, I do not have a sub 1" hole.
 
It all comes down to what the shooter can do with a given factory set up. Beyond disassembly of the rifle and tuning for accuracy, it's all going to come down to Scope and ammo! Ammo being the one variable beyond control. So, I would focus efforts on rolling your own specifically for the rifle in question! Once you have found what the rifle likes, any further needs would require the services of a good smith to do the things all manufactures should be doing , but to save costs, no longer do!
Brother bought a Brand new in the box Remmy imported Mauser 98 marked as a 798, chambered in the mighty .30/06, that rifle tossed just under 1 MOA with mid priced factory ammo. No tuning was done until the rifle was broken in, and hand loading was zeroing in on the rifles built in potential! Once that was achieved, that Mauser would consistently drive 5 shots into just a hair under 1/2 MOA all day long, couldn't get it to toss a flyer and even running a 10 shot string, would only open to just a little over 3/4 MOA! Amazing for a $449.99 off the shelf Remmy, even more impressive is the factory backed it up with a replacement warranty if the rifle failed to produce 1 MOA with off the shelf ammo! Once we found what the rifle was capable of stock out of the box, it was time to work the rifle over with the normal tuning tricks, Piller bed the stock, polish the trigger and firing pin lock, and re cut the Remmy stepped crown to a three angle "Hunting" type crown. The rifle instantly went to 1/4 MOA! A damn Remmy import when Remmy was importing not much else but Junk, I wouldn't ever sell that rifle! Might not be the prettiest rifle ever built, but DAMN it's a shooter, handles nicely,not to heavy, and for a Mauser, VERY smooth!:D If I had the money then, I would have bought a few of them my self!
Now days, a factory Tikka will shoot sub MOA outta the box with out any issues! with Handloads, there pretty easy to get under 1/2 MOA!
 
I mean, normally Ruger Hawkeyes just require pillar bedding, glass bedding, filing a bit on the mag, and you're there.

Granted I wouldn't consider the Hawkeye a budget rifle. Controlled round feed rifles are not cheap. o_O
 
Last Edited:
I agree with No Regrets, don't spend more than $30-$50 on improving accuracy on a rifle that costs $500 - $700 if it groups MOA out of the box. The crown is critical but on a new gun should be adequate. One thing for sure going from .5 to .25 MOA is going to require a match barrel, action truing and a benchrest set up with wind flags and a very light trigger with handloaded match ammo. Consistent .25 MOA is hard enough with a dedicated Bench Rest rifle in a caliber like 6PPC. I tried for years to get .25 MOA from factory guns with heavy varmint barrels and never got close then a guy at the range told me to shoot his bench gun in 222 Rem and the first group I shot was around .25" (5 shots) and I realized my efforts were all in vain. I soon sold most of my so called tack drivers and bought several bench guns. All this to say don't get obsessed with groups smaller than 1/2 " from a factory rifle or you will go crazy.
 
I agree with No Regrets, don't spend more than $30-$50 on improving accuracy on a rifle that costs $500 - $700 if it groups MOA out of the box. The crown is critical but on a new gun should be adequate. One thing for sure going from .5 to .25 MOA is going to require a match barrel, action truing and a benchrest set up with wind flags and a very light trigger with handloaded match ammo. Consistent .25 MOA is hard enough with a dedicated Bench Rest rifle in a caliber like 6PPC. I tried for years to get .25 MOA from factory guns with heavy varmint barrels and never got close then a guy at the range told me to shoot his bench gun in 222 Rem and the first group I shot was around .25" (5 shots) and I realized my efforts were all in vain. I soon sold most of my so called tack drivers and bought several bench guns. All this to say don't get obsessed with groups smaller than 1/2 " from a factory rifle or you will go crazy.
Good post. I think the real truth of the matter is a lot of guys have unrealistic accuracy expectations/wants from a factory built rifle. I guess in my previous post, I should have said after I fine tune a bit, all of my Savage rifles shoot consistent sub moa 10 shot groups. They just don't come that way right out of the box. Now, I'm not saying they aren't real accurate right out of the box, but they always need some tender loving care to get them to shoot consistent sub moa. I generally don't waste my time with 3 shot groups. When I'm working up a load, I'll generally shoot 5 shot groups. After I find some good consistent 5 shot groups, then it's 10 shots to verify the load. It has been statistically proven that 3 shot groups can be a terrible indicator of a rifles true accuracy potential. Here's a good read on 3 shot groups:

The Trouble With 3-Shot Groups - AR15.COM

It talks about mean radius, group dispersion and extreme spread of the group and why it's important to include those flyers. I like these discussions, and don't have a problem with people posting 3 or 5 shot groups, as I do it, but I don't have a lot of faith in them. This is all fun and a good discussion here, but when you really see what your rifle does in the form of a competition where you will shoot multiple 10 shot groups, you start to realize your supposed "sub moa all day long" rifle becomes a dog because you didn't confirm your loads by shooting more shots. Where's ron in this discussion? I know he shoots competition and relies on his rifles to put them in the X-ring with every shot. I've seen him do it with a supposed "budget rifle". It can be done guys... Like I said previously, you don't have to spend tons of money to have a highly accurate rifle. How many of you guys remember the Remington 788? Those were budget rifles back in the day and were introduced by remington as such. The Stevens 200 brought out by Savage was another "budget" rifle with a good following because people know they are accurate. I remember shooting against a guy with a Steven's 200 and he made me step my game up a bit because it's hard to shoot against a rifle/man that consistently pokes holes in the target that are only 5/8" center to center. Yes, this was shot with a "budget" rifle Stevens 200 that he only paid $200.00 for. So to answer the OP's question on accuracy and the "investment to get there", my best advice is to buy a few books on how to accurize a rifle on the cheap. There are many things you can do to a bare bones stock rifle and make it shoot good/great. Some times it's all the little things, that the factory doesn't do to a rifle anymore, that can enhance a rifles accuracy. Some things will make a huge difference, some things will only help aide in accuracy and make it more comfortable for the shooter. Every little bit helps, and with the right know how, it won't take a bunch of money either. I'm not talking about "putting lipstick on a pig" either. If it has a bad barrel and shoots like a dog right out of the gate, there may be not hope for it. This is where you have to use your best judgement. This is a good thread guys, with good discussion.
 
C'mon, it's not about how it shoots.... it's ALL about how it... LOOKS!! :s0108:


My (still unfired) .308 Tikka T3xCTR I'm wanting to be an 800-1000 yard steel shooter... still researching scopes & mounts... :s0035:
DD999762-C391-4F1D-A7F8-18776A6288E3.jpeg
 
If you achieved 1 moa with a budget hunting rifle I would probably quit while your ahead. That is certainly enough precision to hunt out to normal hunting distances. If you are talking beyond 400-500 yds, that is a whole different game and I would not start with a budget rifle. I'm guessing if it shoots 1 moa out of the box it already has a decent trigger. Beyond tailoring loads for it if you reload I don't think I would throw much money at a budget hunting rifle.
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top