Me vs. Beaverton Police

[WhyteCheddar]

Many of the response I read hear make me want to start drop kicking people in the kidneys. Those who would give up a single solitary inch to these low lifes in the city governments are worse than these crappy legislators that would take our rights from us. You know who you are and you shame those that defend the few liberties that we have left.

I open carry in Portland, and often the suburbs, every day. I am in construction and carry onto my job sites, which most often are public buildings. I also go to a coffee place in the morning where there always seems to be 3 to 4 cops sitting at one of the tables. I know for sure they have seen it because I have seen them watching me in my car mirrors when I leave. To date I have yet to have a single interaction with PPB. I have had many many people very interested in me carrying, but that is it. I even thought that they would toss me out of the lloyd center when I went to the book store, but nope.

I also open carried in Eugene when I lived there, and I had constant contact with the local police. They eventually just drove up saw it was me and drove away. The VERY FIRST thing you do when a police officer contacts you is to turn on a recording device, not make any sudden moves and state "I will consent with all lawful orders and refuse any and all searches" If he says anything else to you then refuse to answer questions without a lawyer. You are NOT required to show ID to anyone unless you are performing an act that requires a license. In that case you may be required to produce THAT license and that alone. Also carry an OC pamphlet and know the important laws by heart.

It is a dishonorable thing to conceal a weapon on your person. It is only in recent history that honorable men do it on a regular basis. Since this website is supposed to be an advocate for open carriers then I suggest that those who would ever encourage someone to ever conceal carry to respectfully shut up. I pledged my life to defend the republic and the liberties that we enjoy. When I come to a forum like this and read some of the crap I read, some days I'm sorry I did.

And it used to be dishonorable to hide behind something when in war. Just like standing in even rows facing the enemy right out in the open with your musket.
LMAO, 'dishonorable to conceal a weapon'.
Good for you open carrying. Glad it works for you. Glad we all have the right to do it and I support it. Does that mean its (always) smart? not in the slightest.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Warfare tactics is a totally different subject. By saying look at history I mean look at all of mankind. There honestly is no reason for good men to conceal a tool that one would use as a defensive weapon.

Sorry reply is from my phone I Matt expand my ideas later.

They're different, sure, but there are similarities and I'll explain why I say that. In war, you're cognizant of your threats and where you need to apply diligence as well as where you need to apply force and in what order. As a civilian, you have to identify whom might be a threat to you and others, and who isn't.

I understand the thought of carrying open being a deterrent. I'm not saying that's an incorrect statement. I also understand the idea of concealed carry as not alerting potential foes of your ability to deter them, and the unknown factor for a potential assailant wondering, "does anyone here have guns?" It's a personal preference, and if I choose to carry it's one I weigh with the understanding that society as a whole is uncomfortable (generally) with firearms out there in plain view by anyone other than a uniformed officer or soldier.

It's not a statement of right or wrong; it's recognizing that society is in that place today and isn't likely to change to err on the side of supporting widely the idea of open carry.

 

[SonicBlue03]

And it used to be dishonorable to hide behind something when in war. Just like standing in even rows facing the enemy right out in the open with your musket.

Or, like my brother does, dropping them from his MQ-9

 

[biggie24420]

Biggie-

I personally think you acted like a dickhead. You say you have a CHL - does the term CONCEALED mean anything to you. In this day and age when the police get a report of someone carrying a handgun in public - they are expected to respond and make contact with you.

So instead of acting like a CHL permit holder - which requires certain responsibilities from you - you instead acted like some cheap gunslinger (ie PUNK) who either just wanted to show off that you were a big bad armed dude- or you wanted to force a confrontation with the Local police.

Most CHL holders that I know - never let on that they are carry concealed. It's called responsibility- this isn't the wild west where everyone is going around packing heat. What may be appropriate out in the woods - is certainly not appropriate in a large City.

Personally I don't think you are mature enough to have CHL - and it should be revoked. Or your just a punk that thinks carrying a firearm out in the open so you could walk to the local Plaid Pantry makes you a tough guy.

Proper Concealed Carry is the responsibility of every permit holder to act appropriately - not like some gun slinging punk.

I base this on 32 years in law enforcement dealing with people like you that think that acting like a jerk is your privilege ..

32 years of law enforcement under your belt and you haven't learned not to assume things? It's people like you that give honest law enforcement a bad name. You were not there and don't know how I acted, how I was treated. Another reason why I should be able to record video and audio when it comes to police. You go and believe, say, and assume what you want but don't try to make me the bad guy because I was exercising my rights...... in conclusion you sir are the "dickhead"..... it's people like you who make the responsible gun owners look bad, not people like me who legally open carry.

 

[biggie24420]

I saw a video on Youtube where they had a bunch of citizen who open carried and picked up trash in public. I think it's a good idea to clean our neighborhoods and to bring some kind of awareness to the public. Not everyone who owns a gun is a bad person..... bad guys don't open carry and run the risk of getting in trouble.

Would anyone be interested in doing such a thing? getting together (open carry) and cleaning our neighborhoods? Let me know what you think.....tx.

 

[SonicBlue03]

32 years of law enforcement under your belt and you haven't learned not to assume things? It's people like you that give honest law enforcement a bad name. You were not there and don't know how I acted, how I was treated. Another reason why I should be able to record video and audio when it comes to police. You go and believe, say, and assume what you want but don't try to make me the bad guy because I was exercising my rights...... in conclusion you sir are the "dickhead"..... it's people like you who make the responsible gun owners look bad, not people like me who legally open carry.

You're correct, he doesn't know you. He can only draw his conclusion off of the information you've provided in your own words with one side presented (yours).

 

[iopencarry]

Sorry about that. I should have been more clear on what i was calling subjective.



There. Fixed it.




So first of all, this incident being discussed happened in Beaverton. A city that has ordinances on loaded firearm carry. So from just looking at a person, there is no way to tell if they are "Legally" carrying a firearm on their hip. How do you determine if they can or cannot? With CHL. Which incidentally, is a form of State ID. Secondly, the officers received a call. They had to respond to that call. In so doing, that had to file a report as to what occured during their response. Identifiying the person they received the call about would be a part of that response. How do they know that the person is not an illegal alien with a firearm? They don't. Its not like they were out cruising looking for random people with handguns on their hips to stop. Which brings me to point 3: The 4th ammendment states:



"Probable" in this case may relate to actual statistical probability, or to a general standard of common behavior and customs. The context of the word "probable" here is not exclusive to community standards and does not predate statistics, as some have suggested. In other words, if it is not common behavior and customs to walk around with a gun on your hip, then there is probable cause.

But lets focus on more of the details on this. Lets look at what Oregon Law allows, shall we?




As you see, according to the Oregon Revised Statute 131.615, a police officer CAN stop you if he has "REASONABLE SUSPICION" that the person has committed or is about to commit a crime. ORS 131.605 establishes what reasonable suspicion is. Then under 131.625, the officer "may take any such action as is reasonable to take possession of the weapon."

The situation and the fact that Biggie was openly carrying already establishes that he is armed. His attitude will establish if he is dangerous or not. The responding officers had no reason to suspect he was, and the weapon was in "plain view", so there was no seizure of his property. The stop also remained within the vicinity, and Biggie was not placed in restraints or forcibly moved.

Some of you really need to look at the law before disiminating false information. The police were legally allowed to stop Biggie, and they proceeded as the law allowed. We really have no idea if the way Biggie presented the situation is true or not, since there are always three sides to everything: Side 1, Side 2, and the Truth. But based on the situation he described to us, nothing illegal occured and the police had every right to do what they did AND MORE (like taking possession of his weapon). That is the law. If this has been unclear to anyone, or if I have missed anything, or if i am incorrect, please say so and provide valid and citeable corrections, not just whining that the "popos" are out to get you.

Your absolutley right in a banned city they can and will check your CHL, but you still have rights. And i was in no way saying that he was checked illegaly, im just letting everyone know that in a non banned city they can't stop you for a legally carried gun just to check you out, thats like saying your guilty untill proven innocent, its not reasonable suspicion on that ground alone

Banned cities: yes they can stop and check your CHL ONLY.

Non banned cities: Everything i said applies.

Sorry for not being specific i should have took my time and explained myself better.

For the record i wasn't aware it was a banned city to begin with, so i stand corrected on that. I just don't care that much on the whole banned not banned cities because i have a CHL.

 

[pdxjohann]

Wear proud and humbly, Biggie. Maybe on the fourth, fifth, sixth visit the police called and the caller will just shake their head - there he goes again. Maybe others will carry too on the job or on the street and soon no one will shake their heads. Proudly and Humbly goes Biggie.
Remember when ranchers in the fall would travel to town with their whole years gross earnings in a boot and a side arm openly worn? They should have and do so in a strange town with strange customs but their family's future in their boot. In the boot to pay a years one time payment on loans. This was the nineties folks. A tool to protect and serve.
Now police do not want their public service recorded? Recorded because it has become us versus them. Police are of us. A tough job but US. Why are we them and they us? I am me/us they are we/us. Proudly and humbly goes Biggie us and them all at the same once.
I no longer fear the boogie man. As Biggie said it's just my 'pint of view.' ;p

 

[biggie24420]

Wear proud and humbly, Biggie. Maybe on the fourth, fifth, sixth visit the police called and the caller will just shake their head - there he goes again. Maybe others will carry too on the job or on the street and soon no one will shake their heads. Proudly and Humbly goes Biggie.
Remember when ranchers in the fall would travel to town with their whole years gross earnings in a boot and a side arm openly worn? They should have and do so in a strange town with strange customs but their family's future in their boot. In the boot to pay a years one time payment on loans. This was the nineties folks. A tool to protect and serve.
Now police do not want their public service recorded? Recorded because it has become us versus them. Police are of us. A tough job but US. Why are we them and they us? I am me/us they are we/us. Proudly and humbly goes Biggie us and them all at the same once.
I no longer fear the boogie man. As Biggie said it's just my 'pint of view.' ;p

 

[SpyderTattoo]

The biggest thing to remember here is...


PARAGRAPHS!!!

 

[U201494]

Wear proud and humbly, Biggie. Maybe on the fourth, fifth, sixth visit the police called and the caller will just shake their head - there he goes again. Maybe others will carry too on the job or on the street and soon no one will shake their heads. Proudly and Humbly goes Biggie.
Remember when ranchers in the fall would travel to town with their whole years gross earnings in a boot and a side arm openly worn? They should have and do so in a strange town with strange customs but their family's future in their boot. In the boot to pay a years one time payment on loans. This was the nineties folks. A tool to protect and serve.
Now police do not want their public service recorded? Recorded because it has become us versus them. Police are of us. A tough job but US. Why are we them and they us? I am me/us they are we/us. Proudly and humbly goes Biggie us and them all at the same once.
I no longer fear the boogie man. As Biggie said it's just my 'pint of view.' ;p

Someone please throw me a rope and pull me out before it gets deeper and I end up smothered by this BS.

 

[KomradRazvan]

Wear proud and humbly, Biggie. Maybe on the fourth, fifth, sixth visit the police called and the caller will just shake their head - there he goes again. Maybe others will carry too on the job or on the street and soon no one will shake their heads. Proudly and Humbly goes Biggie.
Remember when ranchers in the fall would travel to town with their whole years gross earnings in a boot and a side arm openly worn? They should have and do so in a strange town with strange customs but their family's future in their boot. In the boot to pay a years one time payment on loans. This was the nineties folks. A tool to protect and serve.
Now police do not want their public service recorded? Recorded because it has become us versus them. Police are of us. A tough job but US. Why are we them and they us? I am me/us they are we/us. Proudly and humbly goes Biggie us and them all at the same once.
I no longer fear the boogie man. As Biggie said it's just my 'pint of view.' ;p

 

[bmont]

Someone please throw me a rope and pull me out before it gets deeper and I end up smothered by this BS.

Exactly!

 

[biggie24420]

 

[biggie24420]

I think people forget that LAW ENFORCEMENT is just that, enforcement. Meaning they should know the laws they are enforcing.

It's not LAW COMMENTING! Cops should stop interjecting their personal opinions.

Things like "do you know how fast you were going?", "in a bit of a hurry aren't we?", etc have no place in their vocabulary.

Fact is open carry is legal. Sorry if it offends some! Sorry if you think it is a tactical disadvantage. Sorry if you are a security guard and bitter at the hand life dealt you!

Rights are rights. I dont like my neighbors jacked up truck with no mufflers. I hate the kid at the coffee shop with 48 piercings on his face, but those are their rights!

In addition, I would be less freaked out by a guy with a $1000 gun in a $150 holster than I would a wanna-be gansta with a Jenning stuffed in the waistband of his droopy pants.

Very true.... tx.

 

[Scott]

The facts are people are all different and come from all walks of life. What we consider social norms others do not. I am all in favor of open carry but I have not seen anybody open carry in Portland or Washington and nor do I care. But you have to admit it is not common to see people carry weapons all over and that is why I don't do it. I want the least of amount attention I can get. People see carry guns as part of not being a social norm like drinking a beer. It's the way people perceive what they feel is right or wrong. If someone wants to I think is is just be ready to be stopped and these days with all of the robberrys, car jackings, murders, banks robbed, and school shootings I understand that people can be a little afraid even though it is a right. What ever happens to you good luck.

 

[U201494]

Where did you get the 130,000 dollars?
Do you understand the value you have to the organization?
If you were to handle the situation on your own, do you understand the value you would have to us?

It's not 130,000. It's 70,000. Don't you people listen?

 

[U201494]

You were obviously watching Payback (mel gibson movie) on TV at the time. Your post is a line from the movie, as is mine. You missed a good movie, but prolly had a good time any how.

 

[revjen45]

We live in WA. OC is legal, but I am a lot more comfortable with CC. OC being legal just means I don't have to worry about it if my shirt rides up while I am reaching for something in the store.

My choice for OC would be my side folder AK clone or Mossberg Persuader - now THAT would cause a stir in Starbucks. Oh, wait. I just remembered that I won't pay $3-5 for a cup of coffee or order something that requires 3 sentences.