Left has lost gun control debate

[bugeye]

An hour?!? You don't read much eh?
Citizens United is a 527 committee, and finished third in our race behind the SEIU.

<broken link removed>

That's funny, you find some moss on a tree and claim you've counted the atoms in the universe.
And this is your response to the answer of how much money flowed into campaigns in 2010 the was legal via the citizens united case, and how did it split between the political parties. Really you couldn't have failed to answer this question any worse if you had just said "42"!
You seem to think that saying anything and acting like it is a slam dunk scores you two points.
Wait, I think you may be on to something, must be part of the rules of rightieball!

 

[bugeye]

Actually Nazism is slightly to the right... but then, so is the Democratic Party.

Darn it, now there is some truth that really hurts, lol.

 

[cybersomatix]

Darn it, now there is some truth that really hurts, lol.

Clearly... The Democrats are further to the right than Hitler... just significantly less authoritarian

 

[bugeye]

Clearly... The Democrats are further to the right than Hitler... just significantly less authoritarian

The devil is in the details, where did this come from?
Mao must be off the chart.

My guess is that Adolf got slid left because of government control of the means of producting weapons, and economic planning, to advance imperialism. I would argue the right leaning motives transcend the actual means employed.

 

[Grunwald]

Sorry but this chart is wrong. You cannot have communism without being authoritarian. There is no such thing as voluntary collectivism for all.

Take that chart and make it a triangle. One of the points is Anarchism, and then it just broadens out to Totalitarianism, which is where fascism, communism, dictatorship, absolute monarchy etc reside.

I;m not even going to try to debate who is more totalitarian between Obama, Biden, Palin or McCain. I find all them as unpalatable choices. I can definitely tell you that Cynthia McKinny is more of a totalitarian than Biden,Palin or McCain just by the virtue of her espousing seizing private assets.

As to communists, my preference would be to just shoot them on sight. They are a useless garbage that should be disposed of. If you got a problem with that statement than you have no experience with what communists do to a nation and its people.

 

[cybersomatix]

Sorry but this chart is wrong. You cannot have communism without being authoritarian. There is no such thing as voluntary collectivism for all.

As a libertarian communist, I beg to differ... there's a whole field of political theory dedicated to it spanning nearly 160 years of work... If you're interested in looking it up, I can give you some suggestions. Until then, let it suffice to say that such an exception exists.

 

[cybersomatix]

The devil is in the details, where did this come from?
Mao must be off the chart.

Political compass, an online test some Brit sociologists put together... it's interesting and fun... I wouldn't place too much academic weight on the extrapolations drawn from the questions (I always rank in the far lower left hand corner)

Mao would be in the upper left hand corner. Hitler was intentionally ambiguous and drew toward the center so as to draw on the widest crowd possible (a game played quite frequently by Democrats and Republicans every election season).

 

[Grunwald]

As a libertarian communist, I beg to differ... there's a whole field of political theory dedicated to it spanning nearly 160 years of work... If you're interested in looking it up, I can give you some suggestions. Until then, let it suffice to say that such an exception exists.

It exist in your mind. Communism is collectivism and libertarianism is about individualism. The undeniable truth is that if I do not want to share what is mine than you would have to take it away from me by force to distribute amongst others.
If you are a communist I have not interest in talking to you and making a claim of being a libertarian communist is akin to calling yourself a gentle torturer.
I have spend the early part of my life in a communist country, and know from first hand experience what communism does.

 

[rufus]

As a libertarian communist, I beg to differ...

Are you a seven foot tall midget too? :huh:

 

[Trlsmn]

As a libertarian communist, I beg to differ... there's a whole field of political theory dedicated to it spanning nearly 160 years of work... If you're interested in looking it up, I can give you some suggestions. Until then, let it suffice to say that such an exception exists.

Sure, please do list some real world examples of communist countries that were not authoritarian.

 

[MA Duce]

Sure, please do list some real world examples of communist countries that were not authoritarian.

Hmmmmmm Why is the "Final Jeopardy" theme playing in my head right now????

 

[cybersomatix]

Are you a seven foot tall midget too? :huh:

Nah... an urban hillbilly by upbringing though.

 

[cybersomatix]

Sure, please do list some real world examples of communist countries that were not authoritarian.

Seeing as how modern libertarian communism is anti-state... The historical examples may not look like what you have in mind... but here are a few:

Icelandic Commonwealth (930&#8211;1262)
Rhode Island (1636&#8211;1648)
Libertatia (1670s&#8211;1690s)
Machnovchina Free Territory (Ukraine) (1918-1921)
Autonomous Shinmin region (1929&#8211;1932)
Catalonia (1936&#8211;1939)
Aragon (1936&#8211;1937)
Freetown Christiania (1971&#8211;present)
Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities (1994-present)

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It exist in your mind. Communism is collectivism and libertarianism is about individualism. The undeniable truth is that if I do not want to share what is mine than you would have to take it away from me by force to distribute amongst others.
If you are a communist I have not interest in talking to you and making a claim of being a libertarian communist is akin to calling yourself a gentle torturer.
I have spend the early part of my life in a communist country, and know from first hand experience what communism does.

I have chatted with many from former communist countries and I have read extensively of the true origins of the so-called "Russian" Revolution (it was a jewish communist led revolution actually, and after it succeeded 90% of the commisars were jewish, and Christians were murdered by the millions)

The useful idiots of the West, as Lenin called them, think they can play at being "hippy communists" without causing serious national side effects, which is exactly why Lenin called them that

They and their absurd ideals are the first against the wall after the communist revolution succeeds

The only good commie is a dead commie. I believe in freedom but only while realizing that with it comes life long responsibility and service to the ideal

 

[cybersomatix]

They and their absurd ideals are the first against the wall after the communist revolution succeeds

As seen in the Makhnovchina and in Spain, libertarian communists tend to fight against the authoritarian breed when it comes to open conflict.

I believe in freedom but only while realizing that with it comes life long responsibility and service to the ideal

servitude to freedom is hardly freedom... but that's a whole other ontological can of worms.

 

[cybersomatix]

It exist in your mind. Communism is collectivism and libertarianism is about individualism. The undeniable truth is that if I do not want to share what is mine than you would have to take it away from me by force to distribute amongst others.

If you do not want to share what is yours, don't share. nobody else has to share with you either. however, in a world of self-interested actors acting self-interestedly, it would appear that incentives exist for most folks to share something with one another for some reasons some of the time. this is the crux of economics (the allocation of limited resources to meet unlimited wants).

If you are a communist I have not interest in talking to you

Then don't... you are free not to.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

As seen in the Makhnovchina and in Spain, libertarian communists tend to fight against the authoritarian breed when it comes to open conflict.

Your ideals are right out of some whacky communist college professor's class. I hope you'll wake the he!! up and realize how absurd it is before the real revolution comes here because no one I know in the patriot movement will put up with it



servitude to freedom is hardly freedom... but that's a whole other ontological can of worms.

Willing service to an ideal like personal freedom and the original Republic is the highest form of nobility and comes with a high sense of honorable behavior and willingness to sacrifice. Such men always eventually prevail over men with concepts such as communism, totalitarianism, anarchy

I am more than happy to fight in any way required to restore the Republic, without hesitation. I will go all the way and I am far from alone.. just look at the men on this thread opposing your goofy and dangerous ideals, sir

 

[cybersomatix]

Your ideals are right out of some whacky communist college professor's class. I hope you'll wake the he!! up and realize how absurd it is before the real revolution comes here because no one I know in the patriot movement will put up with it.

Actually my ideals arise mostly from my experiences in the international anarchist movement. I think I've only had 2 marxist professors... I disagreed with them over the necessity of the state (just as Bakunin disagreed with Marx 150 years ago). In terms of revolutions and civil wars... let's hope for the both of us and our loved ones that such things are distant. It is good to prepare for such things ("Before all else, be armed" - Niccolo Machiavelli), but there are far more numerous political cultures than that of yours or my own who are working to do so.

Willing service to an ideal like personal freedom and the original Republic is the highest form of nobility and comes with a high sense of honorable behavior and willingness to sacrifice.

Servitude to any ideal is still servitude... subsequently, it is to some degree, unfree.

I am more than happy to fight in any way required to restore the Republic, without hesitation. I will go all the way and I am far from alone.. just look at the men on this thread opposing your goofy and dangerous ideals, sir

Actually, you're the only one who has claimed to oppose my ideals... most of the rest of the opposition to communism is opposition to just the sort of communist which I also oppose.

 

[rufus]

Actually, you're the only one who has claimed to oppose my ideals...

I'll go on record as opposing your ideals. Very much so, in fact. What do they put in the drinking water up there in Portland?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Actually my ideals arise mostly from my experiences in the international anarchist movement. I think I've only had 2 marxist professors... I disagreed with them over the necessity of the state (just as Bakunin disagreed with Marx 150 years ago). In terms of revolutions and civil wars... let's hope for the both of us and our loved ones that such things are distant. It is good to prepare for such things ("Before all else, be armed" - Niccolo Machiavelli), but there are far more numerous political cultures than that of yours or my own who are working to do so.

Armed, got that covered

Servitude to any ideal is still servitude... subsequently, it is to some degree, unfree.

No one on this planet is truly 100% free. My answer to this, below. One must choose where to expend one's energy. i choose to spend it defending the best form of mortal government yet devised.. a Constitutional Republic

Actually, you're the only one who has claimed to oppose my ideals... most of the rest of the opposition to communism is opposition to just the sort of communist which I also oppose.

Anarchists talk about anarchy as if they would survive it. Only the best, strongest, smartest, most dangerous and those they choose to defend and support will survive anarchy. I will oppose with all my abilities any system or person who thinks the weakest (Gmas, little children, etc) are fair game because that person wishes "total freedom" at the expense of the helpless. Anarchy is (temporary because it will never last) total freedom, including the freedom to shoot anarchists. Right now that is illegal. Just something for you to ponder..

~~~