Left has lost gun control debate

[bugeye]

Yes, indeed. The left has fought those "attacks" as they accept oodles of money from those evil corporations and from union groups. How much money again did the Unions in Oregon put into the measure 66/67 tax increase campaign last year?

Oregon Tax Hike Vote, Ballot Measures 66 and 67 (January 2010) - Ballotpedia

OEA, SEIU, AFT etc.. 1.65 million donated by the OEA.

<broken link removed>

There is a list of some of the money for the other side of this issue.
Unlike the list you referenced almost all of this funding was corporate or corporate sponsered.

Unions in the US are tiny and stand no chance vs. the sort of coprorate money that now is free to flow.
2010 was just the beginning for People's United!
Not only does this allow corps to spend, and even produce material, to influence elections it protects them from declaring what they spent and where.

I did say that the left resists these forces more then the right, but pretty much both political parties have rolled over on their backs in an act of submission that would make my dog blush.

But no problem, the right will use their goof media and get the plebs all riled up about the unions.

"You can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half" - From 'Gangs of NY'

 

[svxr8dr]

We have gone from racist Nazi's to "you People" to "plebs"....It's getting hard for me to keep up with the civility lol

 

[Jamie6.5]

From RB87's link:

Oregon Education Association $1,650,000
SEIU Local 503 $850,000
American Federation of Teachers $100,000
Oregon School Employees Association $75,000
*Oregon AFT Political and Legislative Action Network PAC $400,000

Total union contributions $3,075,000
And that's without these "at the trough" folks!

Oregon Health Care Association $229,200

*Oregon AFT Political and Legislative Action Network PAC is a front name for the partnership of the American Federation of Teachers and the Oregon School Employees Association. Both of which are unions.

But in buggy's mind, this is worse, and represents a greater threat to the will of the voter.

The two referendum petition political committees that put Measures 66 and 67on the ballot raised $960,196, as reported by the signature turn-in deadline of September 25

Now, I have to ask,... In whose world is $960,000 more than 3.075 MILLION?
Yet you had this to say:

Unions in the US are tiny and stand no chance vs. the sort of coprorate money that now is free to flow.

That doesn't even qualify for a nice try buggy. So math isn't/wasn't your best subject?

Why don't you just post a picture of yourself with your fingers in your ears and hollering:

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA

That will be proof that you care not whether what you are posting is true, or even makes any sense. It may even get you that coveted "poster boy for the left" title you've been after.

With numbers like you are posting here it's a good thing the SCOTUS ruled the way they did.

 

[Jamie6.5]

The left has indeed lost the gun control debate. But given the fact that some (see above) of their members have apparently lost their minds, that's appropriate.

Of course now they are looking for their man in the white house to step up and get all dictatorial on us, and implement yet more steps toward totalitarianism by executive order.

 

[bugeye]

The left has indeed lost the gun control debate. But given the fact that some (see above) of their members have apparently lost their minds, that's appropriate.

Of course now they are looking for their man in the white house to step up and get all dictatorial on us, and implement yet more steps toward totalitarianism by executive order.

Yes, Jamie the noted expert on lost minds.

 

[bugeye]

From RB87's link:
Total union contributions $3,075,000
And that's without these "at the trough" folks!

Oregon Health Care Association $229,200

*Oregon AFT Political and Legislative Action Network PAC is a front name for the partnership of the American Federation of Teachers and the Oregon School Employees Association. Both of which are unions.

But in buggy's mind, this is worse, and represents a greater threat to the will of the voter.


Now, I have to ask,... In whose world is $960,000 more than 3.075 MILLION?
Yet you had this to say:
That doesn't even qualify for a nice try buggy. So math isn't/wasn't your best subject?

Why don't you just post a picture of yourself with your fingers in your ears and hollering:
That will be proof that you care not whether what you are posting is true, or even makes any sense. It may even get you that coveted "poster boy for the left" title you've been after.

With numbers like you are posting here it's a good thing the SCOTUS ruled the way they did.

I glad you won this debate that took place only in your head.
The funds to put the measures on the ballot are one factor, the funds spent for pro or con ads after are factors too.

In 2008 total union membership in the US was at 12.4% of the workforce..
If I use the absurdly high number of $1,000 each for their contributions, that comes to about 11 billion bucks.
Using the same year ( 2008), Exxon's profits for just one quarter were 11.7 billion dollars.
Now that is all the Unions vs. a quarter of one corporation.
First quarter of 2009 corporate profits in the US were about 1500 billion bucks.

Now, one more time, who is drinking the cool aid?

 

[rufus]

Now, one more time, who is drinking the cool aid?

You. Particularly the class warfare flavor.

Tell us, why do you hate corporations so much? Is the concept of making money bad? If you have such a problem with profits, just how much profit is okay with you? Have you emptied your back account and given it away yet? If not, why?

Or is it really what other people do with their money that fuels your hatred? Can you handle this many questions at once?

 

[MikeE]

You. Particularly the class warfare flavor.

Tell us, why do you hate corporations so much? Is the concept of making money bad? If you have such a problem with profits, just how much profit is okay with you? Have you emptied your back account and given it away yet? If not, why?

Or is it really what other people do with their money that fuels your hatred? Can you handle this many questions at once?

Not that the above has anything to do with the 'left' and the gun control debate, but heck, I'll bite. As an owner of a small S Corp, I have nothing against business. Here is what I really hate: Huge corporations that subvert the political system. 400 corporate lobbyists for every single congressperson. Corporate 'advisors' to the President, whether it's Goldman Sachs' Hank Paulsen running Treasury for Bush, or the former heads of GE and JP Morgan 'advising' Obama. Activist judges like Supreme Court Justice John Roberts striking down all campaign financing regulations so that no one needs to publicly state that they have made a political contribution. The US Chamber of Commerce creating a pass-through funnel for foreign corporations to influence US elections. Private military contracting companies and defense industry corporations that live off the government tit to the tune of 1.2 trillion dollars per year while making political donations to both parties. You know - what they call 'Crony Capitalism'.

 

[rufus]

Not that the above has anything to do with the 'left' and the gun control debate, but heck, I'll bite. As an owner of a small S Corp, I have nothing against business. Here is what I really hate: Huge corporations that subvert the political system. 400 corporate lobbyists for every single congressperson. Corporate 'advisors' to the President, whether it's Goldman Sachs' Hank Paulsen running Treasury for Bush, or the former heads of GE and JP Morgan 'advising' Obama. Activist judges like Supreme Court Justice John Roberts striking down all campaign financing regulations so that no one needs to publicly state that they have made a political contribution. The US Chamber of Commerce creating a pass-through funnel for foreign corporations to influence US elections. Private military contracting companies and defense industry corporations that live off the government tit to the tune of 1.2 trillion dollars per year while making political donations to both parties. You know - what they call 'Crony Capitalism'.

I agree with all that, but why does everyone get upset at only one side of the equation? Get mad at the people that take the money for special favors, not the ones that offer it. If the public sector could not be bought-off, the private sector would be sol, as it should be.

The problem is the government, not the private sector.

 

[bugeye]

I agree with all that, but why does everyone get upset at only one side of the equation? Get mad at the people that take the money for special favors, not the ones that offer it. If the public sector could not be bought-off, the private sector would be sol, as it should be.

The problem is the government, not the private sector.

Yeah, all you need for that is what every political system has needed since the first one, uncorruptable people.
Your sacred private sector is filled with crooks of all sorts too.

Corporations act to maximize profits and will take advantage of any leverage they can obtain, this isn't evil this is how they work, and this is why they work so well!

The corps are strong enough and smart enough to act in their own interests. Case in point, demonized unions blown all out of proportion and made to be the scapegoat, with the cheerleading section brought to you by the 'corporate run' media.

 

[rufus]

Your sacred private sector is filled with crooks of all sorts too.

At least I get to pick & choose who I do business with.

 

[MikeE]

I agree with all that, but why does everyone get upset at only one side of the equation? Get mad at the people that take the money for special favors, not the ones that offer it. If the public sector could not be bought-off, the private sector would be sol, as it should be.

The problem is the government, not the private sector.

The scary thing, to me, is that private and public have merged. Over 100 congresscritters now work as lobbyists. Then we get the private sector 'experts' advising the government officials. What we need is engaged citizens committed to a government of the people, by the people, for the people - a third force.

 

[rufus]

The scary thing, to me, is that private and public have merged. Over 100 congresscritters now work as lobbyists. Then we get the private sector 'experts' advising the government officials. What we need is engaged citizens committed to a government of the people, by the people, for the people - a third force.

Again, I completely agree. Hey, wait a minute! I thought it was supposed to go something like this:

I must be getting old...

 

[Jamie6.5]

Since you most here seem to have no idea how political money is distributed, where it comes from etc., I offer you a handy link to check and see where Political Action Committees, lobbyists etc. spend their money.
Now corporations, foreign or otherwise may spend large amounts on candidates and their election funds, but they tend to do it in a more bi-partisan way, to insure that they get treated favorably by the winner(s). So corporate founded PACS will usually split their donations at close to a 50/50 rate.
Unions on the other hand, don't do things that way. They go left 99% of the time, with 95% (or more) of their money. The teachers unions and public sector unions donate to the left 99-100% of the time.
Don't believe me?
Check it out for yourself here:

OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting

Take some time and peruse the site. You have a right after all, to see who is really buying your politicians.

 

[MikeE]

Since you most here seem to have no idea how political money is distributed, where it comes from etc., I offer you a handy link to check and see where Political Action Committees, lobbyists etc. spend their money.
Now corporations, foreign or otherwise may spend large amounts on candidates and their election funds, but they tend to do it in a more bi-partisan way, to insure that they get treated favorably by the winner(s). So corporate founded PACS will usually split their donations at close to a 50/50 rate.
Unions on the other hand, don't do things that way. They go left 99% of the time, with 95% (or more) of their money. The teachers unions and public sector unions donate to the left 99-100% of the time.
Don't believe me?
Check it out for yourself here:

OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting

Take some time and peruse the site. You have a right after all, to see who is really buying your politicians.

Thanks, I will. Meanwhile:

A Koch industries CEO, a Tea Party member, and a public employee are sitting around a plate with 12 cookies. The CEO grabs 11 cookies and turns to the Tea Partier: "That union guy wants your cookie!"

 

[rufus]

Jamie, thanks for the link, it's excellent.

Get a load of the earmarks by our *cough* esteemed congressmen of the 111th:

• David Wu $49,184,800
• Kurt Schrader $42,405,000
• Earl Blumenauer $27,805,200

It's criminal IMO, but that's how these guys roll.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Thanks, I will. Meanwhile:
A Koch industries CEO, a Tea Party member, and a public employee are sitting around a plate with 12 cookies. The CEO grabs 11 cookies and turns to the Tea Partier: "That union guy wants your cookie!"

Yeah those no-good bastards!
Political activities of the Koch family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opposition to the USA PATRIOT Act
The Koch brothers, along with fellow billionaire George Soros and other organizations, each donated $10 million to the American Civil Liberties Union to help defeat parts of the USA PATRIOT Act.[32]

 

[Jamie6.5]

In 2008 total union membership in the US was at 12.4% of the workforce..
If I use the absurdly high number of $1,000 each for their contributions, that comes to about 11 billion bucks.
Now, one more time, who is drinking the cool aid?

You are obviously.
With regard to public sector unions, these are groups that pay significant amounts of money to get people elected that will pay them back with public funds.
With private sector unions, when CEOs are collecting huge bonuses, there are legitimate reasons for unions to go after a bigger slice of the pie.
But the last time I checked, the average taxpayer isn't getting bonuses.
This is close to an anti-trust violation, in the private sector it would be. The SEIU, AFSCME etc. are paying huge sums of money to get candidates elected that will line their pockets at taxpayer expense.

And they are running out of other people's money!

But I know that in your world buggy, California isn't really broke. It's all an evil plot perpetrated by corporations.

 

[rufus]

Thanks, I will. Meanwhile:

A Koch industries CEO, a Tea Party member, and a public employee are sitting around a plate with 12 cookies. The CEO grabs 11 cookies and turns to the Tea Partier: "That union guy wants your cookie!"

You forgot to mention who purchased the ingredients and baked the cookies in the first place. It does make a difference...

 

[bugeye]

At least I get to pick & choose who I do business with.

For consumer goods that's true, but most of us pay far more to corporations not chosen by us. Insurance, the corporations the gov deals with (see story on 200 million overcharge for oil to defense department today on a no bid contract), the corporations that supply support services for the corporations you choose, corporations that have a monopoly like electrical, gas, internet (I'm stuck with an awful company run by crazy devils), garbage, and even the sale, or giveaway, of your financial contracts that you have no control over.

In short, the lions share you are not really choosing.