Lasers as a sighting "crutch"? Not IME

[The Heretic]

Disclaimer: I have not attended any firearms course where defensive/offensive use of a firearm was taught, while I had a laser attached to the firearm I was using. Indeed, I have only attended one firearms course where the focus was using a handgun as lethal force - it was for LEOs (USCG and King co. sheriffs dept.), and the handgun portions were taught at Ft. Lewis - included was shoot/no shoot simulation where you had to decide whether the person in the vid was a bad guy or a good guy, before they shot you - the gun used non-lethal ammo IIRC (it bounced off the screen) and there was some thing that determined whether you hit the bad guy or good guy.

Anyway - to the topic at hand.

I see - from time to time, on gun forums - someone claiming that visible lasers used as an aiming device on handguns - are a "crutch" and that they slow you down during fast shooting.

This has not been my experience (disclaimer - I have not timed myself). IMO and short experience with lasers, I have found that when I get used to the laser, I shoot as fast or faster with the laser than with using iron sights (I have not used a red dot or other optic on a defensive handgun).

I set the laser such that it shows right on top of the front sight when I am properly aiming the pistol.

This helps me know, in precise shooting, when I have the iron sights properly aligned. Over time, while practicing, I speed up my shooting pace and find that I shoot faster and with more precision, with the laser than with iron sights.

Another disclaimer; my sight is gradually failing as I get older - I am approaching 70 (I will be 68 in a few months), I have various eyesight issues, including double vision caused by one eye focusing at a different point lower than the other. As we get older it becomes harder for our vision system to compensate for such problems. So I have issues focusing with iron sights - especially the rear, the front and the target. So keeping the sights properly aligned while placing them on a target is an issue.

Therefore, the laser helps a lot because I only have to focus on the target where the laser strikes it. As such, yes, it is a "crutch" - an effective one for me. I can shoot without it, and I practice both with and without a laser (not all of my guns have a laser, but my shotgun and my defensive handgun, do - as part of the WML).

YMMV - but I find it helpful. Especially at night when it is even more difficult to see the iron sights.

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[Koda]

I decided years ago to not use a laser but if it helps you with aging eyes then use it. Just keep in mind the zero will be different at other distances, if even needed. As far as iron sights you should only be focusing on the front sight, the rear and the target will be naturally blurred. Im not a huge fan of laser beams but as I age I plan to invest in RMR pistol sights as a solution for aging eyes.

 

[The Heretic]

I decided years ago to not use a laser but if it helps you with aging eyes then use it. Just keep in mind the zero will be different at other distances, if even needed. As far as iron sights you should only be focusing on the front sight, the rear and the target will be naturally blurred. Im not a huge fan of laser beams but as I age I plan to invest in RMR pistol sights as a solution for aging eyes.

Not everybody can use every RMR - some people have vision problems that preclude some RMRs.

Also, just something about have that RMR on the top of the slide.. whereas the laser seems to me to be much less obtrusive.

I did train to focus on the front sight, but now have problems with that and find the laser works better for me, especially if I want to be precise - i.e., I shoot smaller groups with the laser.

As for the zero - yes, it will be different at different distances, but the same is true with fixed iron sights on a pistol and I can more easily estimate a hold off with a laser than with iron sights. Then there is the issue of shooting at night.

Before someone mentions lasers and daylight - almost all of my lasers are green, and I find I can see them during the daylight much easier than red lasers.

 

[Koda]

I did train to focus on the front sight, but now have problems with that and find the laser works better for me, especially if I want to be precise - i.e., I shoot smaller groups with the laser.

id say if the laser is working better for you than stick with it. For your needs it sounds like a benefit than a crutch.

 

[Paolung]

I used to be one of the ones who badmouthed lasers.. until I thought it through more.

A laser is a crutch like a HWS or RDS is a crutch.

Those SWAT / Spec Ops / Operator types are so dependent on their "crutches" , right?

Lasers have an added benefit of showing your point of aim even when you don't - or can't - have your weapon sights at eye level.

It's only a "crutch" if you don't know how to use irons at all, IMO. Like any 1x optic, they should be viewed as supplemental to, rather than replacing, iron skills, in my view.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My Charles Daly Hi Power came with a Crimson Trace laser on it and for the price I paid for the gun/laser was essentially free.
It's regulated to 50' and works like a charm if I want. I see no reason to remove it.

 

[The Heretic]

It's only a "crutch" if you don't know how to use irons at all, IMO. Like any 1x optic, they should be viewed as supplemental to, rather than replacing, iron skills, in my view.

Or rather (IMO) don't train to use iron sights.

I've been using and practicing with iron sights for 50+ years. I also practice weak hand.

Yesterday I wasn't so much practicing as I was testing and sighting in a new laser WML - until I had a reload blow up on me. Interestingly, the laser was spot on out of the box.

 

[titsonritz]

As I'm sitting playing with my laser.

Probably because they don't know WTF they are talking about and those using laser as a "crutch" don't know to use a laser. To both I say get your nose out of that gun rag and quit watching doobtube and go get some training with the men and take down scumbags for a living, 'til then you're just talkin' out yer azz.

 

[Certaindeaf]

As I'm sitting playing with my laser.

Probably because they don't know WTF they are talking about and those using laser as a "crutch" don't know to use a laser. To both I say get your nose out of that gun rag and quit watching doobtube and go get some training with the men and take down scumbags for a living, 'til then you're just talkin' out yer azz.

It's way way too complicated man.. bullet goes where dot is.
Crutch me up, yo!

 

[Biped]

Using a firearm with a laser or a red dot fundamentally changes how you aim. They provide threat focused aiming solutions while iron sights provide firearm focused aiming solutions. Both have a place in a gunfight. As they are not the same, they require training and practice to be efficient with both.

 

[edzz]

In a home defense situation I see great benefit provided by lasers. I have M4orgerys and hand guns staged for home defense that are laser equipped, being as I hope to prevent further damage to my compromised hearing it is my hope that the lasers will reduce the likelihood of having to fire a shot. The way I figure it, if I hold the laser dot steady on the intruders face or nuts my cats will likely incapacitate said intruder without requiring shots to be fired.

 

[edzz]