Just in, new mass shooting in another school today, 14 possibly dead 2 children confirmed dead... :(

[nehalemguy]

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A mass shooting at a Texas elementary school left 19 children and two adults dead, adding to a gruesome series of mass killings in America.

apnews.com

Thought these dudes were supposed to be the tough guys that protected us? Let's argue about gun laws instead of talking about how cowards are acting like we should treat them like heroes for completing a application and job interview.

"The bottom line is law enforcement was there," McCraw said. "They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom."

That's great. Contained in a classroom full of children. More proof that we truly are on our own when it comes to self defense.

-E-

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

Can't wait for the 2023 legislative session here in Oregon

The House Democrats' statement added, "In Oregon, we've passed legislation that requires background checks, prohibits guns on public school grounds, makes extreme risk protection orders available, and ensures the secure storage of firearms. We are committed to taking bold action during the next legislative session in 2023 to further prevent these types of tragedies from happening.

Oregon House Democrats Call for Further Firearm Restrictions

“We ran for office to solve big problemsâ€

northwestobserver.com

 

[Aero Denezol]

Can't wait for the 2023 legislative session here in Oregon

Oregon House Democrats Call for Further Firearm Restrictions

“We ran for office to solve big problemsâ€

northwestobserver.com

Great picture. I'm glad we can count on the wisdom of plant & dog moms in troubled times.

 

[EHJ]

WTF is happening in Texas?

Texas Border School District Closes After AK-47, Kill List Found in Suspect’s Home

A school district in South Texas shut down campuses after police discovered an AK-47 and an apparent kill list in a suspect's home.

www.breitbart.com

Buffalo, Texas... Someone wants distractions.

 

[yakyak86]

What are we doing to make sure a gun does not get into the hands of a mentally unstable individual?

 

[arakboss]

What are we doing to make sure a gun does not get into the hands of a mentally unstable individual?

Who do we consider mentally unstable? PTSD, depression, etc?

 

[raftman]

Who do we consider mentally unstable? PTSD, depression, etc?

How about joining this forum about an hour and a half ago just to debate gun control in multiple threads?

 

[Member 3687]

I wish I had answers and there was button to fix all problems but there is not and never will be.

It is not a simple problem as each individual snapped in their own way but as others have said we do not look at the root problem, we just throw BS laws at something then never follow through to see if they work so when it happens again, we throw more BS at it.

The media does not help as they make these folks into celebrities and we have just spent 20 pages of text doing it ourselves.

How many folks right now can name any victim in the shooting with out looking it up but I bet you can name the shooter and probably the shooter from the last couple shootings.

So, are we the problem as we glorify and put these folks on a pedestal giving the next whack job the data and motive to outdo the last?

Everybody wants their 15 min of fame and we give them months and years of it but do nothing to fix it.

Who are the heroes of today, some rapper talking abut killing cops, are the cops' heroes as we defund the police and bad mouth them at every moment, how about fathers o-ya most shooters did not have one and the family unit is being destroyed as we speak, maybe politicians who tell folks to riot and break the law and say it ok to burn down cities in the name of peaceful protest?

We do not talk any more as all we do is text and type on forums.

So, our kids today have no human contact or very little and most kids I know never make phone calls as they text, so no true human voice reaction is ever made. They have no one to look up too or talk to and even if they did, they do not have the skills to communicate they are having problems.

No, not all kids are this way but it seems all the shooters relate to this very well.

We need to get rid of the stigmatism that seeking help is a bad thing and not punish those that do.

I know guys with PTSD who will not seek help as they are afraid, they will lose their gun rights or be ostracized so if that is true with adults how does a kid deal with parents getting a bad divorce or a crack head mom because if word gets out, we all know how other kids will treat them. Badly!

America has lost its way, we do not teach morels, values or life worth any more hell we do not even teach history, reading, writing or arithmetic any more it just political agendas.

Just like an alcoholic, until they are willing to admit they have a problem they can not be helped so until America admits we have a problem and (not a gun issue) are willing to change our ways nothing will change and we will be here in a month/year or so putting the next guy on a pedestal.

 

[slimmer13]

What are we doing to make sure a gun does not get into the hands of a mentally unstable individual?

The mechanism already exists. Those adjudicated mentally ill are ineligible to possess firearms. The question is why isn't this being utilized better.

 

[308]

^^^Everybody who hasn't should watch this video..

"Demoralization"

That and Dr. James Wardner's book called The Planned Destruction of America. He recognized the issue many years ago, but most cannot comprehend the idea of playing the long game...especially when most players will never benefit from the eventual outcome...which I admit to not really understand either.

 

[VanceInWA]

Can't wait for the 2023 legislative session here in Oregon

Oregon House Democrats Call for Further Firearm Restrictions

“We ran for office to solve big problemsâ€

northwestobserver.com

Yet another reason why Idaho continually looks better and better compared to Oregon and Washington...

 

[yakyak86]

I wish I had answers and there was button to fix all problems but there is not and never will be.

It is not a simple problem as each individual snapped in their own way but as others have said we do not look at the root problem, we just throw BS laws at something then never follow through to see if they work so when it happens again, we throw more BS at it.

The media does not help as they make these folks into celebrities and we have just spent 20 pages of text doing it ourselves.

How many folks right now can name any victim in the shooting with out looking it up but I bet you can name the shooter and probably the shooter from the last couple shootings.

So, are we the problem as we glorify and put these folks on a pedestal giving the next whack job the data and motive to outdo the last?

Everybody wants their 15 min of fame and we give them months and years of it but do nothing to fix it.

Who are the heroes of today, some rapper talking abut killing cops, are the cops' heroes as we defund the police and bad mouth them at every moment, how about fathers o-ya most shooters did not have one and the family unit is being destroyed as we speak, maybe politicians who tell folks to riot and break the law and say it ok to burn down cities in the name of peaceful protest?

We do not talk any more as all we do is text and type on forums.

So, our kids today have no human contact or very little and most kids I know never make phone calls as they text, so no true human voice reaction is ever made. They have no one to look up too or talk to and even if they did, they do not have the skills to communicate they are having problems.

No, not all kids are this way but it seems all the shooters relate to this very well.

We need to get rid of the stigmatism that seeking help is a bad thing and not punish those that do.

I know guys with PTSD who will not seek help as they are afraid, they will lose their gun rights or be ostracized so if that is true with adults how does a kid deal with parents getting a bad divorce or a crack head mom because if word gets out, we all know how other kids will treat them. Badly!

America has lost its way, we do not teach morels, values or life worth any more hell we do not even teach history, reading, writing or arithmetic any more it just political agendas.

Just like an alcoholic, until they are willing to admit they have a problem they can not be helped so until America admits we have a problem and (not a gun issue) are willing to change our ways nothing will change and we will be here in a month/year or so putting the next guy on a pedestal.

I like your points about mental health. Can we help improve this or is there no hope?

 

[40Garand]

I think it's time that ALL teachers are given the option to train and arm up. We need a resource officer or two back in schools. If you have to go through screenings to get on a plane or enter a court house then it's also fair time that we implement this in schools. Funny how the left condones over 1 million abortions yearly in the US yet they lose their minds when access is threatened but they won't help implement common sense safety measures in schools or pursue beefing up accessibility to mental health service programs. This all leaves me a bit baffled. The left condones the murdering of babies inside the womb but it's a no go if they're inside of a class room. They say the right values guns over life???

 

[JRuby]

I think it's time that ALL teachers are given the option to train and arm up. We need a resource officer or two back in schools. If you have to go through screenings to get on a plane or enter a court house then it's also fair time that we implement this in schools. Funny how the left condones over 1 million abortions yearly in the US yet they lose their minds when access is threatened but they won't help implement common sense safety measures in schools or pursue beefing up accessibility to mental health service programs. This all leaves me a bit baffled. The left condones the murdering of babies inside the womb but it's a no go if they're inside of a class room. They say the right values guns over life???

Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[yakyak86]

I think it's time that ALL teachers are given the option to train and arm up. We need a resource officer or two back in schools. If you have to go through screenings to get on a plane or enter a court house then it's also fair time that we implement this in schools. Funny how the left condones over 1 million abortions yearly in the US yet they lose their minds when access is threatened but they won't help implement common sense safety measures in schools or pursue beefing up accessibility to mental health service programs. This all leaves me a bit baffled. The left condones the murdering of babies inside the womb but it's a no go if they're inside of a class room. They say the right values guns over life???

I believe trained police are very valuable and we should support them. I am a teacher. I feel teachers have too much responsibility put on them. Keeping a gun safe and ready to use is not easy when you are distracted by other responsibilities constantly. Some of the things teachers do encounter every day are the mental and emotional health of their students. I think our time and energy needs to be spent here.

 

[40Garand]

Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What do I need a wiki link for? Did you miss the part where I typed "beefing up accessibility to mental health service programs"?

 

[taters613]

Hi all,
There's been a lot of responses to my original post; some of them have been pretty 'heated', others have been surprisingly open-minded. I just wanted to let y'all know that I won't be engaging in this thread any longer...it's just too emotionally draining. This horrific atrocity has hit me a heck of a lot harder than previous ones, probably due to the fact that I have a daughter in the exact age group of the victims.

But I do want to reiterate my fundamental point one last time: It is my core belief that laws and legislation around firearm control should originate from communities just like this one.
Even if you are one who believes that no changes are needed at the present moment, we all need to be thinking about the future: After all, it is undeniable that firearm restrictions will need to adapt as weapons technology advances. And I firmly believe that communities just like this one should be leading those conversations.
I realize that the political rhetoric of our party has deeply engrained in our minds the idea that gun control is inherently opposed to gun rights. But this is a false dichotomy and, ironically, it ultimately serves to disempower our own platform. The reason that current firearm restrictions are so inadequate is obvious: Because it was written by folks who don't own firearms, don't use firearms, and frankly don't know anything about firearms. This is our fault, and this will continue to the case until we shed the false dichotomy we've been indoctrinated into.

I want my daughter to grow up in a world wherein the laws and regulations around weaponry are determined by the folks who know the most about that weaponry. However, given our political climate and the direction of our country, it seems overwhelming likely that these laws and regulations will continue to be written by the folks who know the least, and then shoved down our throats while we shout our second amendment platitudes.

Lastly, I want to say that I deeply appreciate all the folks who responded, particularly the ones who were actually willing to recognize the validity of what I was proposing (even if they ultimately disagreed with the proposal). I think it's important to remember that, when it comes to firearm laws, folks on both sides of the isle have exactly the same goal: We all want to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. From that perspective, we're all on the same side here.

 

[yakyak86]

Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A quote from this informative article you shared on mental health. Thank you. Maybe we should try to bring this back?
"Coinciding with a movement during the 1970s for rehabilitation of people with severe mental illnesses, the Mental Health Systems Act supported and financed community mental health support systems, which coordinated general health care, mental health care, and social support services.[2] The law followed the 1978 Report of the President's Commission on Mental Health, which made recommendations for improving mental health care in the United States. While some concerns existed about the methodology followed by the President's Committee, the report served as the foundation for the MHSA, which in turn was seen as landmark legislation in U.S. mental health policy.[3]

The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the MHSA. The Patients' Bill of Rights, section 501, was not repealed; per Congressional record, the Congress felt that state provisions were sufficient and section 501 served as a recommendation to states to review and refine existing policies.[4]

 

[yakyak86]

Hi all,
There's been a lot of responses to my original post; some of them have been pretty 'heated', others have been surprisingly open-minded. I just wanted to let y'all know that I won't be engaging in this thread any longer...it's just too emotionally draining. This horrific atrocity has hit me a heck of a lot harder than previous ones, probably due to the fact that I have a daughter in the exact age group of the victims.

But I do want to reiterate my fundamental point one last time: It is my core belief that laws and legislation around firearm control should originate from communities just like this one.
Even if you are one who believes that no changes are needed at the present moment, we all need to be thinking about the future: After all, it is undeniable that firearm restrictions will need to adapt as weapons technology advances. And I firmly believe that communities just like this one should be leading those conversations.
I realize that the political rhetoric of our party has deeply engrained in our minds the idea that gun control is inherently opposed to gun rights. But this is a false dichotomy and, ironically, it ultimately serves to disempower our own platform. The reason that current firearm restrictions are so inadequate is obvious: Because it was written by folks who don't own firearms, don't use firearms, and frankly don't know anything about firearms. This is our fault, and this will continue to the case until we shed the false dichotomy we've been indoctrinated into.

I want my daughter to grow up in a world wherein the laws and regulations around weaponry are determined by the folks who know the most about that weaponry. However, given our political climate and the direction of our country, it seems overwhelming likely that these laws and regulations will continue to be written by the folks who know the least, and then shoved down our throats while we shout our second amendment platitudes.

Lastly, I want to say that I deeply appreciate all the folks who responded, particularly the ones who were actually willing to recognize the validity of what I was proposing (even if they ultimately disagreed with the proposal). I think it's important to remember that, when it comes to firearm laws, folks on both sides of the isle have exactly the same goal: We all want to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. From that perspective, we're all on the same side here.

Thank you for speaking of mental illness and gun safety. We can figure this out.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Hi all,
There's been a lot of responses to my original post; some of them have been pretty 'heated', others have been surprisingly open-minded. I just wanted to let y'all know that I won't be engaging in this thread any longer...it's just too emotionally draining. This horrific atrocity has hit me a heck of a lot harder than previous ones, probably due to the fact that I have a daughter in the exact age group of the victims.

But I do want to reiterate my fundamental point one last time: It is my core belief that laws and legislation around firearm control should originate from communities just like this one.
Even if you are one who believes that no changes are needed at the present moment, we all need to be thinking about the future: After all, it is undeniable that firearm restrictions will need to adapt as weapons technology advances. And I firmly believe that communities just like this one should be leading those conversations.
I realize that the political rhetoric of our party has deeply engrained in our minds the idea that gun control is inherently opposed to gun rights. But this is a false dichotomy and, ironically, it ultimately serves to disempower our own platform. The reason that current firearm restrictions are so inadequate is obvious: Because it was written by folks who don't own firearms, don't use firearms, and frankly don't know anything about firearms. This is our fault, and this will continue to the case until we shed the false dichotomy we've been indoctrinated into.

I want my daughter to grow up in a world wherein the laws and regulations around weaponry are determined by the folks who know the most about that weaponry. However, given our political climate and the direction of our country, it seems overwhelming likely that these laws and regulations will continue to be written by the folks who know the least, and then shoved down our throats while we shout our second amendment platitudes.

Lastly, I want to say that I deeply appreciate all the folks who responded, particularly the ones who were actually willing to recognize the validity of what I was proposing (even if they ultimately disagreed with the proposal). I think it's important to remember that, when it comes to firearm laws, folks on both sides of the isle have exactly the same goal: We all want to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. From that perspective, we're all on the same side here.

Your still operating under the illusion that gun rights or regulations are yours to decide, they are most assuredly NOT! We have the second amendment specifically to uphold the individual rights of ALL citizens to keep and bear arms, for the protections of all, and for the defense of the state, which could be argued includes our schools and other institutions! The potato in charge claims the second is not absolute, which begs the question of: what of the other rights? He is wrong of course, but that's the mentality of the left, they hold that our Bill of Rights are fluid, a living document that is subject to the wims and wishes of today, they are in fact, NOT!