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Is this correct?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by gnarl, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    I'm planning a rather long hike along the Pacific Coast from the Ozette area...I will be soloing.
    I called the park information center and asked about concealed carry.
    The fellow I talked to thought it would be a wasted effort because I cannot carry my sidearm loaded, and I can be charged if I fire the weapon for any reason.

    What, am I supposed to carry an extra pistol to plant in the cougar's paw after an incident? :huh:
     
  2. Tangent123123

    Tangent123123 Battle Ground Active Member

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    Using google and reading a bit I came up with the following.

    Some counties may have ordinances relating to not carrying in parks etc.

    BUT

    As far as I understand it. State law preempts it.

    RCW 9.41.290 (Preemption) The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality. This law allows you to carry the same in Aberdeen as well as Zillah.

    Do you need a CPL to hike, fish or camp? NO ! The reason why? RCW 9.41.060 (see section 8)
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    You are legally able to carry in ANY city, county or state park or National Forest. As of Feb 22nd, 2010 you are now allowed to carry in the National Parks in Washington State. Be aware that you cannot carry into certain buildings in a national park. However, as to the exception in18 USC 930(d)(3) for "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes," please be aware that there is no federal case discussing the meaning of this specific exception to the law. While some claim it means that a person lawfully carrying a holstered handgun for self defense in a National Park should be able to carry it into the visitor's center, since self defense is "a lawful purpose," the people making such claims are not federal judges. The plain truth is that this provision has never been tested in federal court. The downside of being the first test case is that failure carries the potential penalty of federal prison. Remember that the federal judges who will determine such cases work in federal buildings, and their viewpoint may be colored by their particular circumstance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
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  3. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    All I could find;

    "The federal rule allows an individual to carry a loaded weapon into a national park or wildlife refuge if the person has a concealed-weapons permit and if the state allows loaded firearms in its parks.

    Washington state does, which means that people with the proper permits can legally carry loaded guns into Olympic, Mount Rainier and North Cascades national parks.

    The rule overturns a Reagan-era regulation that restricted loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges.

    The old regulation allowed guns in national parks, but only if they were unloaded and inaccessible."

    New gun rules do not affect Olympic National Park -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily news

    I wonder if the guy at the info center was just uninformed?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  4. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

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    Uninformed??? you mean like most law enforcement pertaining to gun laws??

    You can't actually expect them to know the laws now.


    HEHE!

    (let the fist fights begin!!)

    T_H
     
  5. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    Yeah, but ya got to think an "information center" would not be distributing misinformation.

    Another quote from the same article:

    ""We are not a high-crime park," Gustin said.

    But Bill Wade, chairman of the executive council of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said park law enforcement officers will likely use extra caution when approaching park visitors.

    "Law enforcement rangers are going to have to be much more careful and much more suspicious," Wade said.

    "It just takes away a little bit from that specialness that national parks have been accorded for years and years and years."



    Gots to watch out for all those criminal hikers with CPL's.
     
  6. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Just do it, and beg for forgivness if you wind up defending your life with it. You'll be fine, and it IS what I would do. I just CC'd inside Spirit Mountain Casino today while taking the wife there for lunch, (I have not seen any signs prohibiting it.. and I HAVE looked for them), and all was well. Besides, if someone actually DID go off their nut while I was there, they just might wind up thanking me if it came "down to it".
     
  7. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    Ya, I plan to.
    Probably not in the day...pack belt is uncomfortable unless it is behind the grip.
    I sleep better in the tent with "my leetle friend" close by though.
     
  8. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    You probably got temporary park summer help on the phone and he gave you incorrect information. You may carry a loaded weapon concealed or not, your choice while doing outdoor recreation in Washington and state regulations now apply to weapons in the National Park. You are not supposed to carry into a building where federal employees are expected to be working. You may carry while using sanitary facilities. If you do fire your weapon and they are aware of that there will be an investigation and if you can't prove the need you will most likely face charges. So far there has been one case of a hiker killing a bear that was threatening his companion in an Alaska park and there were no charges as the investigation showed an immediate threat to life. Keep in mind they expect the use of a firearm to be last resort but don't want you to die. Use common sense and stay aware your surroundings and you should have no problem because of your firearm.
     
  9. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe you would need a CPL to carry in any National Park, NWR, State park or National or state forest in WA. It is totally legal to carry Concealed, or Open in WA state while recreating without a permit.

    I have no Idea where that news man, or the NPS gal got their information, but as I understand the Federal law, any NP, NF, NWR is whatever the state law is...WA state law is RCW 9.41....read it. Would the lie to you on purpose? Are you joking? Read the federal Law, it is pretty clear to me.

    Then she comes up with we are pretty crime free and will prosecute if you fire your weapon..What a joke...how about the guy that just got killed by the Billy Goat? The NPS is very anti-gun, and anti-hunting, but they are now required to follow State Law! WA State law allows you to protect you and yours. I agree, their idea (attempting to enforce a non-existant rule) about not carrying in a federal facility is a bunch of male bovine excretement. Sometime I want to specifically carry my hunting rifle and my big Colt revolver into the NCNP visitors center at Newhalem, as the exception specificly states "hunting" as an exemption. The Ross Lake NRA is open to hunting, and was specifically opened to hunting by Congress. Oh, BTW: The NPS is trying to ban all lead bullets in the RLNRA.
     
  10. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    LOL.. here's a quote from that article in post #3... "Washington state recognizes concealed-weapons permits from only eight states, each of which has requirements as stringent as its own".


    So you have to have a pulse, pay the fee, and not have a disqualifying criminal or "mental" record w/o ANY pistol training of any sort? Wow... now THAT IS stringent!!
     
  11. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    The story referenced in the Daily News is outdated and the law they talk about was held up by a court ruleing but Congress attached a rider to a later bill that was signed by Obama and allows state rules on firearms to apply in the park that is in that state. This is a lot better than the earlier law as in WA you do not need a permit to carry open or concealed while doing outdoor recreation. Other states have different rules so you need to know them. This change in the rules was a real slap in the face to the gun control people who tried to use the courts for their agenda.
     
  12. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    So, as to my original question, is it legal for me to carry a loaded pistol in a hike along the
    Pacific coast in a park area?
    Input from the forum and my own research points towards a positive on this one.
    My sidearm is a "life preserver"...absolutely last option against animal or person.
     
  13. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, both OC or CC. No permit needed. You are recreating...see RCW 9.41.050 (8)
     
  14. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    Yeah, that is kind of a governmercial. :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  15. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    When you are "participating in a lawful recreational activity" you are exempt, and you do not need a permit to OC or CC RCW 9.41.060 (8)
     
  16. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    As long as you have a concealed pistol license for WA you are perfectly legal to carry concealed while hiking in Washington state. By Hermannr's interpretation, he would probably have you believe that a felon could also carry concealed in the woods as long as they are hiking as well, when this is not the case. Also note that in WA, we are an open carry state as well.

    Funny you should mention RCW 9.41.050 (especially when you meant 9.41.060)

     
  17. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    RCW 9.41.060 subsection 8 allows for concealed carry without a permit will engaging in outdoor recreation in Washington State. Hiking is listed as outdoor recreation. Of course a felon can not possess a firearm under both state and federal law so that has nothing to do with the op question.
    Your question has been answered; yes you may carry a firearm while hiking in ONP but not into federal occupied buildings. No permit required. Your choice, open or concealed, long arm or handgun. This is not complicated but there still a lot of reference to the Bush era rule that has been superceded by the congressional change in their rider to what was I think about finance rules and Obama had to sign it to get what he wanted.
     
  18. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    Keep reading Riot, a felon cannot leagally posses a firearm, if he cannot posses, how can he carry in any way.

    Yes, I mistyped on the 050 (8), I do that occationally. Sorry, You are correct, it should be 060 (8) I will fix.

    Regardless, it is completely legal to CC or OC while hiking, fishing, hunting, camping or any other thing that is considered a "recreational activity" without a permit in WA state.
     
  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I really don't like the fact that they think the people carrying in the parks are more dangerous.The bad guys have always carried in the park anyway,no?

    gnarl,I would print out any laws you can find to show the misinformed rangers if they do happen to see the gun and ask about it.Might just make for a more pleasant trip.

    And have a great hike
     
  20. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    I'll do just that and bag them with my maps.
    A friend of my daughter told her he had a cougar behind him for awhile on the Sand Point
    boardwalk a few weeks ago...I'd prefer not to be chow just yet.
     
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