Invite to participate in hunting study??

[Caveman Jim]

How about No, I do not need feel a need to educate myself on non lead bullets. I'll stick with my lead ammo and be happy knowing what I shoot is going to die.

 

[RKP]

Well, this photo is why I started to seriously look at non lead bullets for my reloads. I set a trail cam on the gut pile of the elk I shot. This elk took three rounds in the heart/lung from my 325 WSM, 200 grain Nosler Partitions. Public land with lots of hunters around so I don't like them to go very far. Lots of other pics over two days of animals feeding there; eagles, hawks, ravens, magpies, Jays, coyotes...

 

[msgriff]

The obvious lead-free projectile bias of the "researcher" is apparent, thanks to those here for investigating that. That information not being disclosed in the study invitation results in the conclusions of said study being questionable. One might even go so far as calling it "junk science". At best, it's disingenuous. I'm leaning more towards deceptive.

Monolithics foul bores much quicker than jacketed. They also create higher bore and projectile temperature, which may have secondary effects on the shooter's health similar to to or greater than jacketed lead core.
Norway introduce jacket steel core for the military around 20 years ago with serious health effects to the shooter:
" In 2003, the Norwegian armed forces changed their primary assault rifle to the HK416 (Heckler & Koch, Germany). Shortly after the new weapon was put into service, flu like symptoms after training sessions at firing ranges were reported. It became evident that the symptoms were due to exposure to gunshot fumes. The symptoms were similar to what previously have been observed among welders (Voie et al., 2014). The symptoms were attributed to the newly introduced ammunition with a steel core instead of a lead (Pb) core, and further use of this ammunition type was temporarily prohibited."

"Investigations revealed that the newly introduced steel core ammunition, NM229, generated firearm discharge fumes with more copper (Cu) and zinc (Zn) than the lead core ammunition, SS109, that it replaced. This is mainly caused by a higher friction between the barrel and the bullet due to the higher radial stiffness of the steel core and, consequently, a lesser ability to deform while passing through the barrel."

Whether the Norway situation translates into solid copper alloy monolithics and how it would effect the occasional shooter/hunter health is unknown.

 

[Koda]

Well, this photo is why I started to seriously look at non lead bullets for my reloads. I set a trail cam on the gut pile of the elk I shot. This elk took three rounds in the heart/lung from my 325 WSM, 200 grain Nosler Partitions. Public land with lots of hunters around so I don't like them to go very far. Lots of other pics over two days of animals feeding there; eagles, hawks, ravens, magpies, Jays, coyotes...

View attachment 1474862

Well you just let the elephant out of the closet. The science is real on the issue but many arent willing to accept it.
and no, I dont support any bans on lead hunting ammo.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

More info on this study.

I emailed the guy doing this study with some questions and got a reply. It sounds like an unbiased research project.
Here is our communications:
My letter:
"Leland,

It is unclear to me what it is you are looking to achieve with the results of this study. What do you mean by "best practices"? Is the goal to obtain data to restrict the types of ammunition used or the methods to humanly kill game animals?
Are you a hunter? What experience do you have in putting meat in the freezer to feed your family?
What is your field of study at PSU?
Is this study funded by or supported by an outside organization or company? If so, who are they and what interest to they have in the data results?


I look forward to your reply,
Ron"

His reply:
"Ron,

This research is intended to improve the data available to hunters when selecting hunting ammunition. There is no intent to pursue regulations.

I am a hunter, both personally and worked for almost a decade on invasive species management projects (feral pigs, goats, etc.). I have dealt with selecting hunting bullets for a variety of firearms and the lack of research on performance has been frustrating me for years. I began talking about conducting a study like this close to a decade ago, and finally it came together, and PSU accepted me into the graduate biology program.

This study is a collaborative effort between ODFW, PSU, and the Oregon Zoo. It's a bit of an odd group, but all involved agreed on the importance of hunting within the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, and the intent to share the information with hunters to assist in selecting bullets for harvesting game.

Hope that helps,
Leland"

The Oregon Zoo was a major player in the California Condor program and a major player in the fight to ban lead bullets in CA.

 

[Koda]

The Oregon Zoo was a major player in the California Condor program and a major player in the fight to ban lead bullets in CA.

if I recall the Oregon zoo has plans to introduce condors to the columbia river gorge. My guess is if their breeding program becomes successful enough.

 

[RKP]

Well you just let the elephant out of the closet. The science is real on the issue but many arent willing to accept it.
and no, I dont support any bans on lead hunting ammo.

I'm not in favor of any bans either. I'm not in favor of seat belt and helmet laws but I have used both long before the laws were even suggested because I knew it was smart, knowledge gained from hard knocks and luck. Yesterday I did some more backyard terminal ballistic tests with wet newspaper and reduce velocity hand loads and was very impressed with the results. The mono bullets made today are so much better that what was available when I first tested them 15 years ago.

 

[Koda]

The mono bullets made today are so much better that what was available when I first tested them 15 years ago.

You keep letting more elephants out of the closet here. Not just that I personally dont want to eat lead myself but from what Im reading any my limited experience with monos they are performing better terminally than their lead counterparts by either shedding petals (which each has their own terminal impact) or retaining virtually all their weight retaining a perfect mushroom. I have not experienced any of the copper fouling issues Ive read about monos of early years, sub moa accuracy is achievable. I loaded a ttsx to hunt last year to try one and the entry and exit showed a perfect mushroom with a devastating wound channel in between, and I was able to harvest right up to the wound channel like where it went thru the heart....

 

[eldbillbo]

I got one too. My question is who gave him my contact information

 

[nwwoodsman]

I got one too. How the hell did you all draw tags while I got skunked?

 

[eldbillbo]

I got skunked for deer the past 6 years for deer tags

 

[Camelfilter]

I got skunked for deer the past 6 years

Many migrate into suburbia as seasons start/jk...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Deer and other critters ain't dumb...that's for sure.
Sure seems like they know when its hunting season.

Thank you Friend Owl for teaching Bambi and Co. how to read.the hunting regulations..
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

On a serious note...
Every day is hunting season for most animals one way or the other...
Which is why when it's our turn out in the game fields...it can be challenging to fill a tag.
Andy

 

[Tlock]

On a serious note...
Every day is hunting season for most animals one way or the other...
Which is why when it's our turn out in the game fields...it can be challenging to fill a tag.
Andy

The deer, elk, grouse never get a break from being hunted.....something is always after them!

 

[Tlock]

Now it's wolves, bears and coyotes......next will be grizzly bears

 

[eldbillbo]

Many migrate into suburbia as seasons start/jk...

Skunked for Eastern Tags

 

[GDUB JR]

This guy has an agenda and is not being transparent.
Search who he is and up comes:
"Leland Brown is the non-lead hunting education coordinator at the Oregon Zoo, and co-founder of the North American Non-lead Partnership.Aug 26, 2020

https://myodfw.com › unleaded

Unleaded - Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife

"

Why is he not forthright about being anti-lead?

 

[Val1884]

A study is why we can't shoot those pesky sea lions anymore..don't participate tell them to shove it up where the sun dont shine. Only communists need studies an surveys .

 

[tkdguy]

No.