I now support defunding the (city) police

[wired]

Get rid of the "Fraternal Orders" . Then maybe I'll think about supporting the police. Until then theyre just a racket.

 

[Tarawa86]

Get rid of the "Fraternal Orders" . Then maybe I'll think about supporting the police. Until then theyre just a racket.

You want to get rid of the "Loyal Order of Moose"? Seems pretty extreme dude.

On a serious note, what does a "Fraternal order of the Police" actually do/why are they bad?

 

[Tarawa86]

I may be wrong but the voters in Pdx seem to tollerate the state of the City and do not seem to be complaining to the City governance. I may be wrong but if they were the City administration would act differently? I think the same dynamic is happening in Salem as well.

Unfortunately, the Portland city council is elected 'At Large' which, I think, is pretty rare. I think it takes away the voice of the more conservative areas of the city. Hopefully PDX and Seattle will see the mistake of electing leftists after all the riots.

 

[wired]

You want to get rid of the "Loyal Order of Moose"? Seems pretty extreme dude.

On a serious note, what does a "Fraternal order of the Police" actually do/why are they bad?

Its their union. Keep the bad for the better of the whole.

 

[Tarawa86]

Its their union. Keep the bad for the better of the whole.

This is a hard one though. For example, it's really hypocritical when you see teachers screaming about defunding the police, when their unions have the same problem. I also don't want to see people get fired for being white, which is what the Seattle City council wants to do in their defund plan (to preserve diversity).

I'd have to say I'm pro union for police unless every government worker agrees to give up their unions and pensions also.

 

[wired]

I'd have to say I'm pro union for police unless every government worker agrees to give up their unions and pensions also.

I'll go one further. I dont care if they agree to do it or not.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I think highest position in any police department, sheriff department and State police should all be elected so they can not be stripped of performance by a left sided city councel or mayor or govenor.
You all see how the city police are commanded to stand down with all of this anifta protest going on all across the nation. They should be delt with accordingly with a swift knock on the head yo calm things down.

 

[made in china]

Well, not sure if you read through any of the messages in this thread. My main point is that I feel we would be better served with policing from the Sheriff's department. Same amount of cops, they'd all just be sheriff's.

They can't stand not having the head of law enforcement directly answerable to the people, hence the ballot measure submitted by the King County Council to make the Sheriff an appointed rather than elected position, which would be a terrible turn of events.

King County Council moves to strip power from Sheriff’s Office; proposals to head to voters in November

From 1969 until 1996, the King County executive appointed the county sheriff.

www.seattletimes.com

King County prosecutors office is also trying to de-criminalize many types of serious charges. Dozens of King County prosecutors want office to ignore some burglary, drug and assault cases

So, KC politics affect KCSO which seem to align with Seattle mentality, generally speaking.
Don't see how Seattle losing SPD and utilizing KCSO would improve anything.

 

[Tarawa86]

King County prosecutors office is also trying to de-criminalize many types of serious charges. Dozens of King County prosecutors want office to ignore some burglary, drug and assault cases

So, KC politics affect KCSO which seem to align with Seattle mentality, generally speaking.
Don't see how Seattle losing SPD and utilizing KCSO would improve anything.

Well, as long as the Sheriff is elected I think it would be a better choice. I'm pretty sure the whole reason they want to change the county charter to have an appointed sheriff is due to the fact that he can and does frequently ignore them.

Even though I live in Oregon I plan to donate generously to any effort to counter this nonsense. I was born in Seattle, at University hospital even. I hate the cesspool it has become.

 

[made in china]

This is a hard one though. For example, it's really hypocritical when you see teachers screaming about defunding the police, when their unions have the same problem. I also don't want to see people get fired for being white, which is what the Seattle City council wants to do in their defund plan (to preserve diversity).

I'd have to say I'm pro union for police unless every government worker agrees to give up their unions and pensions also.

I am a City of Seattle employee, unionized.
The City of Seattle really did say to our faces that they are considering to fire most white employees.
What most people don't realize is that the City already has a deficit of white employees, there's a lower rate of whites in City employ than the demographics of the City.

The way the City is wasting money, many of us don't believe there will be a pension at all in a few years. The SJW's will begin labeling pensions as "privilege" and attempt to defund them. They may succeed in that, however, they would likely fail to fire people just for being white, that would be illegal. They may try and do it, but legally it will backfire.

As far as our Union is concerned, most of us hate the Union. The Union represents a mostly Conservative group of employees/members, but implores us to vote "D". They take our Union dues and waste them on the "D"s.

Interestingly, a narrative I keep hearing repeated in "social justice" is the call to unionize more things. Huh, weird. Personally, I don't need a union. I can continue to succeed without a union "backing" me.

 

[Tarawa86]

The City of Seattle really did say to our faces that they are considering to fire most white employees.
What most people don't realize is that the City already has a deficit of white employees, there's a lower rate of whites in City employ than the demographics of the City.

The way the City is wasting money, many of us don't believe there will be a pension at all in a few years. The SJW's will begin labeling pensions as "privilege" and attempt to defund them. They may succeed in that, however, they would likely fail to fire people just for being white, that would be illegal. They may try and do it, but legally it will backfire.

I can't even imagine what contorted gymnastics they would have to attempt to even begin trying to get away with race based firing.

 

[made in china]

I can't even imagine what contorted gymnastics they would have to attempt to even begin trying to get away with race based firing.

They will probably justify it the same way others have justified summarily firing police officers recently: they know they'll lose MOST cases and the officers will get back pay and jobs back, but the OPTICS will look so good that they tried it. Despite the legal expense, it'll be "worth it" to show their constituents and activists they tried. They know their voters won't hold the legal costs to the City against them. They'll have made their name. At the cost of tax dollars.

 

[CoastRange57]

Hillsboro PD along with code enforcement does a good job of keeping the homeless out of our parks and other public areas, but that could all end if we get PDX style council members.

Been to the Dairy Creek park by Winco lately ?? Unless things dramatically changed in the last 4 months since I was there, that was a veritable city of transients.

Edit: This idea involves all city police being moved to the Sheriff's office.

It worked very well for Cornelius and Banks and Gaston. Cornelius was a mess and had been for over 30 years and Banks needed the SO. Forest Grove would do well to contract with the county as well, since they have nothing but corruption and drama on and every day basis since they hire POS chiefs, who run out long term officers, and they have become a revolving door with very high levels of attrition, and get into daily pissing matches and then blame their downfall on the current or past city managers which ever fits their woe is me I got f over agendas.

 

[CoastRange57]

Personally, I don't need a union. I can continue to succeed without a union "backing" me.

Belonged to the AFSCME union back in 1988 to 1991 at the Beaverton School District. Paid in union dues and got to listen to the bitter old shop steward strut around the place claiming he was going to grieve every stupid move that management made.

Of course when Ballot Measure 5 came along and equalized school funding and took away Beavertons golden tax goose they had to cut back. The csers started layoffs and that strutting little mouthy peacock basically said it goes right down the seniority line and all you newbies are just sh*t out of luck, because the union is going to make sure the senior guys are taken care of., because that is what unions do. My 3 years in meant nothing and the bastards took my money for three years and kicked us to the curb without so much as a reach around.

F the unions. They quit meaning anything years ago. Political liberal pukes who line their incompetent pockets with the working mans dollars and then sh*t on them when it gets tough.

 

[sobo]

@Tarawa86 , for what it's worth my friend, I understood what you were getting at!

As did I, cuz I actually read what he wrote.

 

[tkdguy]

I think there is something else going on here. Looking at some of the recent videos of appointed politicians in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, I am thinking that there is a error in my thinking that the politicians are simply resistant to federal intervention, but I am now thinking they are viewing them selves as revolutionaries, which puts a different political perspective on the events; and the blm and antifa movement while politicians are catching the opportunity wave. I'd think that it would be a good idea to link up like-minded persons by zip code.

 

[made in china]

My 3 years in meant nothing and the bastards took my money for three years and kicked us to the curb without so much as a reach around.

F the unions. They quit meaning anything years ago. Political liberal pukes who line their incompetent pockets with the working mans dollars and then sh*t on them when it gets tough.

In our union shop, we have several entrenched guys that have seniority. The thing about them is, they've been conditioned to take advantage of the city, and they know just how much they can get away with.
They are basically useless as a co-worker, they nark on people and grieve everything.

Most of the best guys in our shop are relatively new, and they'll be the first to go. Everyone knows, the 2021 budget is going to be a slaughterfest.

 

[made in china]

I think there is something else going on here. Looking at some of the recent videos of appointed politicians in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, I am thinking that there is a error in my thinking that the politicians are simply resistant to federal intervention, but I am now thinking they are viewing them selves as revolutionaries, which puts a different political perspective on the events; and the blm and antifa movement while politicians are catching the opportunity wave. I'd think that it would be a good idea to link up like-minded persons by zip code.

Yup, in Seattle they have banned "crowd control devices" which is basically letting the insurrectionists have a free for all. Already SPD officers are being completely overrun in the streets.

SPOG (Seattle Police Officers Guild) actually said they'd welcome Federal officers to come in to Seattle, they are tired of their officers getting kicked around.

There's power in disruption.

 

[Nosferatu]

I don't think they need to be defunded, they just need to stop hiring anyone who can fog a mirror.

 

[BrentN]

Okay. So I am getting the feeling that "defund" is just the shiny. A distraction. Oh sure, this is the current slogan on the pre-printed signs. And some city's will undoubted defund. But the meat of the matter will be after the defunding, and during the reform phase, which will undoubtedly follow, as crime runs rampant and even the most anti-police crowd wil be calling for some kind of law enforcement. Then we can witness the unconstitutional mantra of "diversity and inclusion", which, without fail, aims to exclude one particular race, one particular gender, and one particular sexual preference. So like we have seem where curent Chiefs are to step down and make way for a POC to take over, with little attention paid, I would certainly expect the same for the rank and file. You know, once all the "good ol boys" have said screw this, and moved on or retired, who will be replacing them?
Vilifying then reforming law enforcement is a major tenet of Marxist reform.
I will also expect that the PD's we are talking about will in a few short years, have a massively bigger budget, but with the money being wasted on non-law enforcement fluff.