How to tell if it's lead or a lead alloy?

[Kruel J]

Well maybe I came up with a new element, like Tony Stark did, did you think about that?

Yeah, yeah, it should probably say "lead alloy" - maybe a nice mod could change that???

I don't fish, so no need for fishing weights, but a tabletop trebuchet sounds pretty cool!!

Title fixed, but now my posts just sound stupid!

A shot of my nephew a few years ago launching one I made.

 

[Alexx1401]

Title fixed, but now my posts just sound stupid!

A shot of my nephew a few years ago launching one I made.

View attachment 388763

What was he launching out of that thing? I hope you didn't have to pay for anyone's windows.

 

[etrain16]

If you want to cast it into something like sling shot ammo I would also buy something cheap to melt it in. Small cast iron pot of some kind. Check second hand stores and such. I would not want to put it in a lead furnace you use for casing. The possibility of zinc is what scares me there. Lee made or used to make a little pot for doing this on the stove. It was my first try at casting. May find one on Ebay. That way if this does turn out to be some kind of zinc you have not screwed up a good lead furnace.

I ordered a new Lee 20# lead furnace. I also found an inexpensive used smaller Lee furnace that I wouldn't be concerned as much with. I think I have a small cast iron skillet around here that I wouldn't mind sacrificing - it's too small to be put to practical use in the kitchen, so that could work.

As for the concerns about zinc - everything I'm trying to learn about lead (and lead alloy) says that once you melt it, almost everything will float to the surface - copper, tin, antimony, impurities, etc. Will zinc not also do the same? What is it that zinc will do to harm equipment, etc.? I've not run into the concern about zinc in my study so far.

 

[etrain16]

Title fixed, but now my posts just sound stupid!

A shot of my nephew a few years ago launching one I made.

View attachment 388763

Oh damn, I need to make one of those!

 

[Kruel J]

What was he launching out of that thing? I hope you didn't have to pay for anyone's windows.

A baseball. No collateral damage, but we managed to get it well past at least 3 houses down the block before it even hit the ground. I only used 20 pounds of counterweight to keep things manageable.

 

[Alexx1401]

I ordered a new Lee 20# lead furnace. I also found an inexpensive used smaller Lee furnace that I wouldn't be concerned as much with. I think I have a small cast iron skillet around here that I wouldn't mind sacrificing - it's too small to be put to practical use in the kitchen, so that could work.

As for the concerns about zinc - everything I'm trying to learn about lead (and lead alloy) says that once you melt it, almost everything will float to the surface - copper, tin, antimony, impurities, etc. Will zinc not also do the same? What is it that zinc will do to harm equipment, etc.? I've not run into the concern about zinc in my study so far.

Yes when molten the lead will be heavier that anything else so other "stuff" would float. In a pot of molten lead you should be able to scoop it out then. You could try this with a VERY small piece of the stuff you have dropped in after the known stuff is hot. Again this to me is just all more work that I would do for such a small amount. If it does turn out to be lead or lead alloy assuming you don't want to buy a tester, I would then just use it in small amounts along with known stuff. I use a lot of lead for rolling my own stuff but everything I do this with is just for fun at the range. So none of it is loaded to levels that would be a problem if it's too soft. If you test it and are sure enough it's not some kind of zinc then just use a pound of it or so for every 10 pounds of the known alloy. Will not take long to use it up that way.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You could try a drop of muriatic acid on it but the main characteristic of zinc-contaminated lead is that it is an uncastable slurry when "melted". Uncontaminated lead/alloy should be homogenous and pour like water in a continuous stream. You could melt some in an old stainless steel (or of course cast iron - Harbor Freight) vessel from the Goodwill but stay away from aluminum.. it'll fail at the worst possible time.

 

[DirectDrive]

Melt some known lead in your pot first. Add the new stuff. If it floats take it out because it's zinc or something else unleaded. If it settles into the liquid it's lead.

I like this ^^^

 

[etrain16]

You could try a drop of muriatic acid on it but the main characteristic of zinc-contaminated lead is that it is an uncastable slurry when "melted". Uncontaminated lead/alloy should be homogenous and pour like water in a continuous stream. You could melt some in an old stainless steel (or of course cast iron - Harbor Freight) vessel from the Goodwill but stay away from aluminum.. it'll fail at the worst possible time.

That's good to know. The casting videos I've watched to date show just that - a nice steady stream pouring. Nice thing about using cast iron for melting/testing is that cast iron pans, even new, are fairly inexpensive - at places like Goodwill, I know they can be found used, if not a bit rusty - donated by folks that don't know how to properly season them - or to restore them when rusty - makes for a nice buy.

 

[BillGabby1]

Helps to know where it came from, pure lead can be had from diving weights, or keel weights from sail boats, or from metal supply houses. Then there are those from prepared alloys for bullet casting, that will usually make it harder, by adding tin and antimony. The pure lead is the softest and mainly used by black powder enthusiasts. Wheel weight lead is generally pretty hard and often dirty requiring flux stirred into the melt to float all the impurities to the surface where they can be skimmed off and disposed of. You can use plain candle wax or paraffin, small piece about the size of the tip of your pinkie will do the job, it might ignite or smoke but this doesn't last long. Besides you are working outside aren't you? Good idea! There are other nasty vapors that can be cooking off that lead that you don't want to breathe.
Others can help you with the mechanical means of testing the hardness.
Best of luck,
Gabby

 

[etrain16]

Helps to know where it came from, pure lead can be had from diving weights, or keel weights from sail boats, or from metal supply houses. Then there are those from prepared alloys for bullet casting, that will usually make it harder, by adding tin and antimony. The pure lead is the softest and mainly used by black powder enthusiasts. Wheel weight lead is generally pretty hard and often dirty requiring flux stirred into the melt to float all the impurities to the surface where they can be skimmed off and disposed of. You can use plain candle wax or paraffin, small piece about the size of the tip of your pinkie will do the job, it might ignite or smoke but this doesn't last long. Besides you are working outside aren't you? Good idea! There are other nasty vapors that can be cooking off that lead that you don't want to breathe.
Others can help you with the mechanical means of testing the hardness.
Best of luck,
Gabby

Yes, any melting/casting will absolutely be done outside - I don't even like the idea of melting lead in the garage, even with a fan.

As for the lead, someone did take the time to put it into ingots, so I'm not dealing with just loose scrap, but the guy I got them from didn't know - he did say he'd try to contact the guy he got them from to see if he might know.

But again, for this amount of lead, it will make find slingshot ammo if it's truly unknown, and I'd be happy with that.

 

[BillGabby1]

You didn't say what kind of bullets you were planning to cast and for what purpose, that would also help you decide what you will use it for.

Most people cast bullets for practice rounds and reserve their expensive self defense loads for their serious carry loads.

Hot loads for either rifle or handgun will require at least a brass cap on the base or jacket to prevent excessive leading and deformation of the lead bullet from the high temps that will melt it as it is fired down the barrel.
I hope this helps.
Gabby

 

[BillGabby1]

Almost any lead will work for practice loads and definitely will work for sling shot ammo.
BTW tin is mainly added for flow characteristics, as it helps the lead to flow and fill the molds better than pure lead will.
Antimony is added for a hardener.
G

 

[Heywood]

Obviously you can melt it. Can you measure the temp at which it melts? Tin should at melt about 450°f lead at 621°f and zinc at 787°f. . If you can control your heating, you should be able to separate any differing metals.

 

[jbett98]

I've used a heavy duty stainless steel tea kettle to melt lead for fishing weights.
I liked the pouring spout with a strainer and the heat resistant bakelite handle.

 

[BillGabby1]

Zinc is used in galvanizing and is harmful to your health, at minimum make you sick at maximum it will kill you.
It will give off a yellowish nasty smoke / vapor.
Don't breathe it and vacate the area until it is all burned off, don't turn your furnace off as that would only cool and trap it in the lead and would still be there the next time you melted what was left in your furnace. I would get some plumbers flux and flux it a couple of times to make sure it was all gone before resuming casting, if you only have a couple ingots worth after all that you might want to just pour it all off and sell it to a scrap yard. There it will be processed and purified, and be reused safely.
Gabby

 

[etrain16]

You didn't say what kind of bullets you were planning to cast and for what purpose, that would also help you decide what you will use it for.

Most people cast bullets for practice rounds and reserve their expensive self defense loads for their serious carry loads.

Hot loads for either rifle or handgun will require at least a brass cap on the base or jacket to prevent excessive leading and deformation of the lead bullet from the high temps that will melt it as it is fired down the barrel.
I hope this helps.
Gabby

To answer your question - I'll be casting both for BP guns as well as for pistol rounds - 9mm to start. This will be exclusively for practice/plinking only. I may progress up to rounds for other uses, but at this point, it's really just for plinking and to getting to know the casting process.

As for the brass cap you mentioned - I have a Lee sizing die for lead cast bullets that will crimp/affix a cap to the base of the bullet when it's resized - I believe that's a 'gas check', correct?

 

[Alexx1401]

To answer your question - I'll be casting both for BP guns as well as for pistol rounds - 9mm to start. This will be exclusively for practice/plinking only. I may progress up to rounds for other uses, but at this point, it's really just for plinking and to getting to know the casting process.

As for the brass cap you mentioned - I have a Lee sizing die for lead cast bullets that will crimp/affix a cap to the base of the bullet when it's resized - I believe that's a 'gas check', correct?

Yes, doing that you can drive a lead slug to higher speeds without leading.
If you are just making ammo to play with you should not need to go to that much work. When I was still casting I bought both pure lead and alloy. The alloy was probably what they call #2 now days. It was hit and miss at the supply shop so I bought what they had when I needed some. When using lead and wanting bullets for my hand guns they also sold Linotype. Can't remember what he formula was to make a good alloy but I just followed that. Sure it's out there on google these days like everything else. I was rolling .380, 38, 44, and 45 rounds. Always loading to middle ground in the manual or light for Wife. At that never had problems with leading. When I wanted to make something "better" like for my .44 I of course just bought factory bullets. For the kind of fun you're talking it will be easy to make stuff that will not cause problems.

 

[etrain16]

Yes, doing that you can drive a lead slug to higher speeds without leading.
If you are just making ammo to play with you should not need to go to that much work. When I was still casting I bought both pure lead and alloy. The alloy was probably what they call #2 now days. It was hit and miss at the supply shop so I bought what they had when I needed some. When using lead and wanting bullets for my hand guns they also sold Linotype. Can't remember what he formula was to make a good alloy but I just followed that. Sure it's out there on google these days like everything else. I was rolling .380, 38, 44, and 45 rounds. Always loading to middle ground in the manual or light for Wife. At that never had problems with leading. When I wanted to make something "better" like for my .44 I of course just bought factory bullets. For the kind of fun you're talking it will be easy to make stuff that will not cause problems.

Down the road, higher power stuff like .357 will likely be on the list. I like to take things slowly when learning new things like this, but ultimately, I do expect to be more precise.

 

[ageingstudent]

Down the road, higher power stuff like .357 will likely be on the list. I like to take things slowly when learning new things like this, but ultimately, I do expect to be more precise.

If you're going to be powder coating the hardness will be less crucial and you probably won't need gas checks. It's more important to get the bullet sized properly. If those ingots don't look lumpy and you can scratch or dent them with your fingernail they are likely pure lead or a soft alloy. You can't engrave zinc with your fingernail and it doesn't make an ingot or a bullet worth a darn when it's mixed in with lead.