How to tell if it's lead or a lead alloy?

[etrain16]

If you're going to be powder coating the hardness will be less crucial and you probably won't need gas checks. It's more important to get the bullet sized properly. If those ingots don't look lumpy and you can scratch or dent them with your fingernail they are likely pure lead or a soft alloy. You can't engrave zinc with your fingernail and it doesn't make an ingot or a bullet worth a darn when it's mixed in with lead.

For cast bullets, not round ball for black powder, I am interested in powder coating - if that also means gas checks aren't needed, that's one less step and that's great.

As for the ingots - looks like they were poured into a muffin pan. I did a scratch test on one using both my thumbnail and a key - I was able to scratch the surface fairly easily with both. So, I'm thinking this may be pure lead?

Here are a few photos:

 

[Lilhigbee]

If it readily scratched with your thumbnail it is pure, or close enough to consider it pure for casting purposes.

 

[BillGabby1]

To answer your question - I'll be casting both for BP guns as well as for pistol rounds - 9mm to start. This will be exclusively for practice/plinking only. I may progress up to rounds for other uses, but at this point, it's really just for plinking and to getting to know the casting process.

As for the brass cap you mentioned - I have a Lee sizing die for lead cast bullets that will crimp/affix a cap to the base of the bullet when it's resized - I believe that's a 'gas check', correct?

Yep, my old brain wouldn't come up with the proper name.
Getting old is such fun! You should see my typing before I proof read it, spell check doesn't catch them all.
Save your softer lead for your BP exclusively, and just go ahead and use the harder stuff for practice / plinking loads, just skim it and use it.
BTW I've never come across any zinc when casting, so other than keeping your eyes open, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Keep a fan slightly behind and to the side of you so that it blows any fumes and such away from you, it'll help to keep you cool too. I don't put it directly behind me as that creates an eddy area right in your face, not good McGee!
Have fun reloading and making your own boowets it's part of the fun too. With anything having to do with firearms keep your mind on what you are doing, mistakes can be expensive in more than one way.
No one here has mentioned keeping water AWAY from molten lead. A drop will explode and spray molten lead all over the place and at excess of 600F very dangerous.
If I'm going to quench my bullets in water, I put a 5 gallon bucket with a couple of gallons down between my feet so that when I drop them in none of the water splashes high enough to cause trouble.
I often do my casting in the carport in the shade using the tailgate of my PU truck as a bench, so I'm standing and this works a charm. BTW standing is the best way to do it unless you have a leather apron, a splash of molten lead can really spoil your love life, if it lands in your lap while seated, hot coffee doesn't hold a candle to it! One more thing don't wear polyester or nylon clothes, they melt and stick right to your skin. Cotton, wool, and leather are best, they don't melt.
Gabby

 

[BillGabby1]

Powder coating boowets?
Isn't that stuff hard once it's cured?
I'm envisioning excessive wear in the bore, tell me I've misread this, jacket and gas check material is soft enough that it readily conforms to the rifling.
Gabby

 

[ageingstudent]

For cast bullets, not round ball for black powder, I am interested in powder coating - if that also means gas checks aren't needed, that's one less step and that's great.

Well the bullet in the middle was shot out of my .351wsl 18" barrel at~1800 fps and 12 bhn hardness. The powder coating is clearly still intact along the engraving. No need for a gas check up to that pressure/velocity anyway with a correctly sized bullet. And that covers your .357 easily.

 

[ageingstudent]

Powder coating boowets?
Isn't that stuff hard once it's cured?
I'm envisioning excessive wear in the bore, tell me I've misread this, jacket and gas check material is soft enough that it readily conforms to the rifling.
Gabby

If you beat it with a hammer it moves right with the lead so it's malleable. It's definitely not harder than bore steel.

 

[etrain16]

Yep, my old brain wouldn't come up with the proper name.
Getting old is such fun! You should see my typing before I proof read it, spell check doesn't catch them all.
Save your softer lead for your BP exclusively, and just go ahead and use the harder stuff for practice / plinking loads, just skim it and use it.
BTW I've never come across any zinc when casting, so other than keeping your eyes open, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Keep a fan slightly behind and to the side of you so that it blows any fumes and such away from you, it'll help to keep you cool too. I don't put it directly behind me as that creates an eddy area right in your face, not good McGee!
Have fun reloading and making your own boowets it's part of the fun too. With anything having to do with firearms keep your mind on what you are doing, mistakes can be expensive in more than one way.
No one here has mentioned keeping water AWAY from molten lead. A drop will explode and spray molten lead all over the place and at excess of 600F very dangerous.
If I'm going to quench my bullets in water, I put a 5 gallon bucket with a couple of gallons down between my feet so that when I drop them in none of the water splashes high enough to cause trouble.
I often do my casting in the carport in the shade using the tailgate of my PU truck as a bench, so I'm standing and this works a charm. BTW standing is the best way to do it unless you have a leather apron, a splash of molten lead can really spoil your love life, if it lands in your lap while seated, hot coffee doesn't hold a candle to it! One more thing don't wear polyester or nylon clothes, they melt and stick right to your skin. Cotton, wool, and leather are best, they don't melt.
Gabby

All good points, thank you. As to the water, I'm somewhat familiar with that from cooking - hot oil is equally dangerous when coming into contact with water, as is molten sugar - I've done candy making and you can get similar reactions to water with molten sugar at 350+ degrees. It's always good to remember what does and doesn't mix well together

 

[P7M13]

I'd say hold onto it and compare it to the stuff I have for you.
Not only that, 20# takes up almost NO space. Stash it somewhere. In 5-10 years, that stuff may be worth 2-3x what you paid for it.

If you still have doubts, or want a great mind exercise, use Archimedes Principle, and you can determine to what percentage purity it is of lead. Gives a pretty good accuracy range and costs you almost nothing to do. Couple that with a Brinnel test, and you'd have a great idea of what your alloy does. Except for pure lead, the hardness can be tweaked by quenching based on what the alloy may be.

 

[ageingstudent]

All good points, thank you. As to the water, I'm somewhat familiar with that from cooking - hot oil is equally dangerous when coming into contact with water, as is molten sugar - I've done candy making and you can get similar reactions to water with molten sugar at 350+ degrees. It's always good to remember what does and doesn't mix well together

Try not to drop a hot bullet between your shoe and the side of your foot. It's really hot don't ask me how I know.

 

[BillGabby1]

If you beat it with a hammer it moves right with the lead so it's malleable. It's definitely not harder than bore steel.

Ok but I'm concerned that it may come off and act as an abrasive, I'm not familiar enough with its properties to know how it will act. Teach me please.
Gabby

 

[etrain16]

Ok but I'm concerned that it may come off and act as an abrasive, I'm not familiar enough with its properties to know how it will act. Teach me please.
Gabby

I will defer to those with actual experience, but I've spoken with a number of folks that use powder coating in place of say, lubricants, and say it does just as good a job, if not better than lube to prevent lead fouling without causing any damage or degradation of the barrel.

 

[ageingstudent]

I'd say hold onto it and compare it to the stuff I have for you.
Not only that, 20# takes up almost NO space. Stash it somewhere. In 5-10 years, that stuff may be worth 2-3x what you paid for it.

If you still have doubts, or want a great mind exercise, use Archimedes Principle, and you can determine to what percentage purity it is of lead. Gives a pretty good accuracy range and costs you almost nothing to do. Couple that with a Brinnel test, and you'd have a great idea of what your alloy does. Except for pure lead, the hardness can be tweaked by quenching based on what the alloy may be.

Like that^^^

Comparing against known materials is good. Metals have fairly consistent properties unique to themselves and weights/volumes are very specific.

 

[ageingstudent]

Ok but I'm concerned that it may come off and act as an abrasive, I'm not familiar enough with its properties to know how it will act. Teach me please.
Gabby

It does not come off. It's not abrasive most of it is polyester. Don't confuse it with appliance paint which is brittle and chips like porcelain.

 

[P7M13]

Here are some great resources that I've downloaded.
P7_id10T's Casting references

 

[ageingstudent]

This is also awesome

From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners, Table of Contents - Fryxell/Applegate

As is this whole website

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,

 

[etrain16]

Here are some great resources that I've downloaded.
P7_id10T's Casting references

Definitely bookmark those.

 

[etrain16]

This is also awesome

From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners, Table of Contents - Fryxell/Applegate

As is this whole website

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,

More good stuff to check out - thanks!

 

[dangerranger60]

If you want a good reference on casting, lead and alloys I have used Cast Boolits site. Funny spelling but they know lead and alloys! I do alloy my lead to harden it and make it fill out the moulds easily. If you are going to shoot it at .357 mag speeds you are going to need it to be hard! People used to buy Linotype alloy from print shops because it was hard. The next easy to get hard alloy is Wheel Weight Material, or WWM. The problem with WWM is that zinc is now used as wheel weights. so you have to sort out the zinc. sorting is pretty easy.
If you drop lead on concrete it makes a dull thud. If you drop zinc it pings like a new penny. [ Penny's are mostly zinc now with only a thin plating of copper.]

If I had 20 or so lbs of an unknown alloy I would add a pound of pure tin and shoot them at 38 spl velocity using them as plinking bullets. Or coat them with the poly either in epoxy or powder coat and shoot them that way.

Good Luck DR

 

[etrain16]

If you want a good reference on casting, lead and alloys I have used Cast Boolits site. Funny spelling but they know lead and alloys! I do alloy my lead to harden it and make it fill out the moulds easily. If you are going to shoot it at .357 mag speeds you are going to need it to be hard! People used to buy Linotype alloy from print shops because it was hard. The next easy to get hard alloy is Wheel Weight Material, or WWM. The problem with WWM is that zinc is now used as wheel weights. so you have to sort out the zinc. sorting is pretty easy.
If you drop lead on concrete it makes a dull thud. If you drop zinc it pings like a new penny. [ Penny's are mostly zinc now with only a thin plating of copper.]

If I had 20 or so lbs of an unknown alloy I would add a pound of pure tin and shoot them at 38 spl velocity using them as plinking bullets. Or coat them with the poly either in epoxy or powder coat and shoot them that way.

Good Luck DR

I've been on the Cast Boolits site before, but I keep forgetting about it - another good reminder.

 

[Rick4070]

There is a formula to calculate BHN using a known pure lead sample, an unknown hardness sample and a 1/2" or so ball bearing.
I bought a 99.9% pure lead ingot from Roto Metals, cast it into a muffin pan, and cast an ingot of the unknown hardness one into the pan too.
Put the ball bearing between the two ingots and press the ingots together with a vise, trying for about one third of the diameter of the ball as to depth. measure the diameter of both dents.
Lets say that the dent in the pure lead was .200", and the dent in the unknown was .150".
Divide the 200 by 150, ( no decimal point.) should be about 1.33. Square that, (1.33 X 1.33.) Should be 1.7689. Multiply that by 5, (BHN of pure lead.) Alloy should be 8.8445 BHN.( Round that off to 8.8 BHN, close enough...)
This only tells you the hardness, not the other elemental metals in the mix.
This formula was in the NRA cast bullet book.
Also, Roto Metals will test a sample for around $40, IIRC, but not worth it for only a few pounds...