How to sell COLT 9mm stamped SMG

[Nero]

A family member has a Colt 9mm AR with 7" barrel. This was originally purchased in 90's and it had a DIAS with it. He wants to keep the DIAS but sell the Colt bc its old and was also restamped SMG. I said I would ask the experts here. I was thinking, maybe take off the stock and install a Sig pistol brace??? Or maybe the only way is to split the upper from lower and sell individually? Thoughts?

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[PDXSparky]

He should just keep the colt. The reasons for selling it make no sense to me.

If you remove the DIAS, then you have an unregistered SBR, which is a problem. To sell it that way you'll need to do a Form 1 to create a registered SBR before selling it. This method will take many months of waiting.

IF it started out as a rifle, you can't make it into a pistol. Which rules out the Sig brace.

You shouldn't have any difficulties selling the upper and the lower individually.

 

[Nero]

I think its just a closet queen as the DIAS gets a workout in more modern AR platforms. Which, as you know...makes the Colt out of compliance if maintained in original configuration. Thats why he removed the fire controls and split the upper/lower in different locations. Great advice so thank you for the reply.

 

[Quartermaster]

A family member has a Colt 9mm AR with 7" barrel. This was originally purchased in 90's and it had a DIAS with it. He wants to keep the DIAS but sell the Colt bc its old and was also restamped SMG. I said I would ask the experts here. I was thinking, maybe take off the stock and install a Sig pistol brace??? Or maybe the only way is to split the upper from lower and sell individually? Thoughts?

You can't turn what was originally a rifle (SBR, SMG, whatever) into a pistol. A pistol must start out as a pistol. It can go to a rifle, firearm, whatever, and go BACK to a pistol, but not the other way.

 

[Unka-Boo]

Could always permanently attach a barrel extention....granted, a 9" hider or "fake can" might be a little ungainly, but it would let you sell it as a rifle and not violate NFA.

 

[jbett98]

Does it look like this?

 

[CountryGent]

Slightly tangentially, The Small Arms Review had an article on the Colt 9mm SMG. Just thought I'd pass it along in case anyone is interested: The Colt 9mm SMG/Carbine, by Christopher R. Bartocci

 

[IronMonster]

Now wait a minute. What is the NFA item here? Is the rifle a NFA registered machine gun with the DIAS a component (not sure that's possible?) or is the DIAS the NFA item? In which case is what you have actually an unregistered SBR? Or do they both have stamps?

Seems to me that if the DIAS has the stamp then the rifle would take another stamp (the DIAS is a machine gun all by itself in the eyes of the ATF)

Am I missing something?

 

[jbett98]

Here is one that's for sale.



"This is a JCB drop in auto sear and Colt 9mm host. You know what you are looking at. This is one of the hardest NFA pieces to get and they rarely come up for sale. This one is all steel, not aluminum. You can legally put this into nearly any AR15 style rifle and shoot full auto. This item is registered in KY on a form 4. The first transfer to your FFL/SOT will be paid on this end.

As a bonus you will also receive a very nice Colt preban 9mm host. The scope pictured does not go with it. This rifle by itself is NOT an SBR and not subject to an NFA transfer but must ship with the DIAS installed."

This package was purchased from Neal Smith a few years ago by me. It runs 100%.

I will ship it to your FFL/SOT for $31,600. All NFA rules apply. You can contact me at [email protected] or call me at 859-361-9444.

Thanks for looking,

Rex Tyson

Kentucky Firearms

 

[IronMonster]

So the Colt SMG is considered part of the DIAS as far as how it's registered with the NFA? So if you take the auto sear out you create a unregistered SBR?

I know machine gun stamp trumps everything so to speak but in this case the machine gun is not actually a firearm?

 

[jbett98]

A registered lightning Link will make a Colt SP-1 Sporter into a full auto weapon and it's just a couple of pieces of sheet metal.

 

[IronMonster]

I understand that, but what we are talking about above is a rifle with a 7" barrel that I assume does not have a stamp which has a registered DIAS. I assume with the DIAS in place the entire contraption is considered a machine gun (which is stated the lower is stamped SMG). So you take out the fancy bit and you now have what? It sounds like they broke down the parts into components to avoid having an additional NFA item and are doing nothing wrong. But in the real world if you were at the range and you pulled your fancy auto sear out of your 7" barreled Colt SMG and dropped it in something else you just committed a felony by creating an unregistered SBR correct?

 

[Unka-Boo]

So the Colt SMG is considered part of the DIAS as far as how it's registered with the NFA? So if you take the auto seat out you create a unregistered SBR?

I know machine gun stamp trumps everything so to speak but in this case the machine gun is not actually a firearm?

Pretty much...Dias is the MG, it's host can be whatever it fits. Legal as long as the Dias is in there. Same holds true for registered HK sears. ( As far as I can remember )

 

[jbett98]

If you separate the upper from the lower doesn't that constitute a non SBR configuration?

 

[The B]

If you separate the upper from the lower doesn't that constitute a non SBR configuration?

Yup.

Seems to me there's two ways of going about this, and really only two ways...

1. Sell it as an SBR - you can get paid immediately, it's the buyer that has to wait for months, not you.

2. separate upper and lower and sell each individually.

It's a bad bubblegum gun that nobody is gonna want as a modified non-SBR rifle. That'd be gay as bubblegum. You'll probably even get one buyer for both pieces, but you might want to really think hard about how to go about transferring both to his possession without creating an appearance of intent to build an SBR. I'm not someone who's super paranoid about bubblegum like that, but it definitely pays to make reasonable efforts.

 

[IronMonster]

Well, not if both whole parts are still present with no other parts to which they can be reassembled. If it's all you had it would be constructive intent of an SBR (if they were out to charge you with something). I read on the ATF website something to that effect.

I know we are way off track here, My assumption is the ATF is not going to hassle you if you are doing your best to stay on the right side of the law. I can also tell you that if I owned both of these and planned on using the DIAS in other weapons I would either have a pistol lower to put that upper on or SBR a lower for it.

 

[The B]

Well, not if both whole parts are still present with no other parts to which they can be reassembled. If it's all you had it would be constructive intent of an SBR (if they were out to charge you with something). I read on the ATF website something to that effect.

I know we are way off track here, My assumption is the ATF is not going to hassle you if you are doing your best to stay on the right side of the law. I can also tell you that if I owned both of these and planned on using the DIAS in other weapons I would either have a pistol lower to put that upper on or SBR a lower for it.

So long as he owns and possesses the DIAS, he has the legal equivalent of an SBR lower, basically. Owning an SBR lower means you're allowed to have multiple SBR uppers..... owning a "machinegun" (which the DIAS is defined as) does the same.

I would think by the same logic, having a DIAS ought to then make the complete SBR a part for the DIAS, but I'm sure that's asking too much. Separate them when the DIAS isn't in it.

 

[Unka-Boo]

Yup.

Seems to me there's two ways of going about this, and really only two ways...

1. Sell it as an SBR - you can get paid immediately, it's the buyer that has to wait for months, not you.

2. separate upper and lower and sell each individually.

It's a bad bubblegum gun that nobody is gonna want as a modified non-SBR rifle. That'd be gay as bubblegum. You'll probably even get one buyer for both pieces, but you might want to really think hard about how to go about transferring both to his possession without creating an appearance of intent to build an SBR. I'm not someone who's super paranoid about bubblegum like that, but it definitely pays to make reasonable efforts.

Assuming it's a registered SBR....I would bet it's not.

Either sell them separately, or make the barrel 16" OAL.

 

[IronMonster]

So long as he owns and possesses the DIAS, he has the legal equivalent of an SBR lower, basically. Owning an SBR lower means you're allowed to have multiple SBR uppers..... owning a "machinegun" (which the DIAS is defined as) does the same.

I would think by the same logic, having a DIAS ought to then make the complete SBR a part for the DIAS, but I'm sure that's asking too much. Separate them when the DIAS isn't in it.

Gotcha.

Since I have lived the last 20 years in a state that does not allow machine guns I have never worked out the nuances

 

[Unka-Boo]

Does it look like this?

View attachment 337663

I call dibs if it is!