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Holy Shirt!!!

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by tac, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    I just had to pay $15.90 for a RCBS #3 shell-holder over here in yUK. A pal bought it for me in a large dealership on his way back from a road trip.......:eek:

    It would have been cheaper to have flown over to NWA in PDX and bought the damn thing myself. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

    I HATE this place.:angry: x 100

    tac
     
  2. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    U R N the UK ? Didn't think they allowed firearms ?.:confused:
     
  3. Abe Froman

    Abe Froman West of Salem Active Member

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    He didn't buy a firearm.
     
  4. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I realize that, shell holders are used for reloading for firearms, at lest that's what I use them for, #3 Shell Holder For 30-06/45 ACP/45GAP/243/270/270/308 Win./22-250/280/260, maybe there's another use, just wondering......:huh:
     
  5. The Duck

    The Duck Oregon Active Member

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    ???

    A person can have firearms in the UK, it is just under cert done through the police...
     
  6. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Sir - I have spent the last thirteen years on

    www.lugerforum.com

    www.sigforum.com

    www.gunboards.com

    www.muzzleloadingforum.com

    www.antiqueguns.com

    www.swissrifles.com

    and a few others, as well as joining in shooting sessions in OR and WA, letting people on YOUR side know that over here in UK, in spite of many restrictions, shooting sports of all kinds are second only to the national game of football in popularity - it is also far safer and less prone to the hooliganism, rioting fans, anti-social behaviour and so on that plagues THAT particular past-time. In fact, here in UK there are over a hundred rifle builders alone, specialising in F-class, practical/tactical rifle, even the big stuff - the British Fifty Calibre Shooter's Association is the second largest on earth after the US. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you that the MOST-BOUGHT sniping rifle on the planet by nations other than the US is the entirely British-designed and built Accuracy International series in 7.62x51, .338LM and .50cal BMG. Many of the top non-US F-class and high-end target rifle shots use our British-made Border barrels, too, as do I.

    My first few posts on THIS site, that a few took great exception to at the time, were principally to correct the many erroneous assumptions made by people like yourself, who maybe haven't been as well-informed by the few UK-based posters like me who can be bothered to post on an predominantly American site, risking ridicule, sneers and sarcasm as we do to put our story over to a disbelieving readership.

    For what it's worth, I have only eighteen firearms here in UK - many in my thriving 220+ membership gun club have more than thirty, and a few have fifty or more.

    The Phoenix meeting here in July attracted over 25,000 visitors. The usual target rifle matches at Bisley continue to attract shooters from all over the world - visitors to Bisley last year totalled almost 100,000 shooters from all over the world, including the USA.

    And -

    The VAA -Vintage Arms Association is British - membership of around 3000.

    The HBSA - Historical Breechloading Small Arms Association is British - membership of around 3500.

    The Muzzle Loading Association of GB is British - membership around 4500.

    The British Deer Society is British - membership about 100,000. In fact, they recently celebrated qualifying their 150,000th successful student on the basic deer management course - a pre-requisite for any on-the-hill deer-stalking [as we call it here].

    The orginal NRA - National rifle Association - is British - membership about 75,000.

    The NSRA - The National Small-bore Rifle Association - is British - membship about 40000.

    And without turning my head much, I can see the Gun traders Gazette - a list of over 2500 gun stores - one of which, Sportsman Gun Centre, by itself takes up 48 pages in just one of our monthly gun magazines - 'Gun Mart'.

    Add to that the world's first on-line shooting magazine - the 90-100 page 'Target Shooter - http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/safety.htm - full of articles on shooting and adverts for specialist custom rifle makers and accessories of all kind, and you'll see what I'm getting at.

    So don't put us down because we don't enjoy the rights and privileges that you do, enshrined as they are in the RKBA. We might be small fry compared to you guys and your mighty collections, but we are doing the best we can.

    tac
     
  7. thelendog

    thelendog Milwaukie Member

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    whoa.
     
  8. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    You kinda blew right passed a lot of key points on what you don't have and can't do in the UK with guns now didn't you! :thumbup:
     
  9. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    S
    Hey Tac, I'm not putting you down, I'm on your side. It's my understanding you suffer under some of the strictest gun legislation in the world, it's hard for us to even comprehend such restrictions. There are organizations and political groups here in the US that would love to lead us down the same path.

    How is this going to prevent crime ?

     
  10. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Ah, right. I can see trouble ahead here, but I'll plough on before I leave for good.

    On mainland GB -that's England, Scotland and Wales [the big island] we can't freely own modern cartridge-firing handguns, except long-barrelled pistols or revolvers [if you want to see one, you'll have to e-mail me as I can't post images off my hard-drive]. This is because on March 16 1996 a deranged pedophile walked into a first grade school and slaughtered 16 four and five year old children and their teacher, and wounded a couple of dozen others before [allegedly] killing himself. In the ensuing hoo-hah, right at the time of a general election, both main political parties swore it would never happen again by promising to take all legally-held handguns away from us.

    This they did.

    Nor can we own semi-automatic centre-fire long arms - this is an entire UK and Dependent Territories ban. This is because in 1988 another nut-case shot his mom dead, set fire to the house they lived in, and then went on a four-hour rampage, killing another fifteen people and wounding about thirty others, before killing himself. One of he guns he used was a self-loading carbine, hence the instantaneous ban on that type of firearm.

    However, in Northern Ireland and the The Channel Islands you CAN own an ordinary handgun, just like you can. On the Isle of Man - a dependent territory - you can only have a .22 handgun.

    Apart from that, anything goes, providing you can show need to own it - this is dependent on being a fully paid-up member of an authorised club, or a professional shooter like a game warden or game-keeper or land manager.

    I'm just an ordinary joe, just like most of you, I suspect - the management at Clark Rifle [WA] and Izaak Walton range [OR] will confirm that, and I have -

    2 x .308Win [Krico 650SS with 8-32x56 Nightforce NSX and a K-31-actioned Schultz & Larsen with Gehmann/Centra target diopter sights]

    2 x 7mm Mauser [a 1912 Model B and an 1897 Boer War DWM carbine bringback]

    2 x 7.5x55 Swiss [K11 and a K31 with all sight options]

    1 x .451" Whitworth BP military match rifle

    1 x .58cal BP Musketoon

    2 x BSA Martini International MkIII scoped target rifles [one LH and one RH action] - one with x18 Unertl 2" Super Target scope, the other with a x20 Tasco target Balvar x24 look-alike

    1 x BSA Model 1 take-down target rifle with tang sights - a unique piece, AFAIK, and to be seen on the BSA website.

    1 x Walther DSM Sportmodel 1

    1 x Walther Model 1 bolt-semi-auto with orginal 1926 scope

    1 x Anschutz 1409 with x20 Tasco Balvar look-alike

    1 x Mauser ES350B with original scope 1937 scope

    1 x Ruger Old Army .44 C&B revolver

    1 x Second series Colt Walker #1816, cased with all accessories

    1 x Ruger Super Redhawk in .357Mag with Burris 2-7x40 scope

    Not too shabby in a 'country where there's no gun-ownership', eh?

    True, the law takes a very dim view of your using firearms to defend yourself, since the law also requires that you lock them up when they are not in use. But I'm pretty certain that I could put my 33 years 365 days experience in military nastiness together with my Edo-period katana and wakizashi and make it an unpleasant experience to enter my house unasked and unnanounced.

    tac
     
  11. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it ISN'T going to prevent crime, which is mostly black gangs killing other black gangs, white gangs killing white gangs, or black gangs killing white gangs, or any combination of black/white/dark brown/light brown you can think of.

    Without playing the racial card here, I'd like to point out that just like similar figures available from the USJD, over 85% of all gun crime in THIS country is carried out by the 11% of the population that is NOT white, or even ethnically British. As part of the para-legal system here, I cannot help but notice, when visiting police stations up and down the country, and in particular, the big cities, that the 'most wanted' faces tend to be un-white. In one major police station in NW London - of 385 pictures on a wall, all but 11 were non-white with names that are definitely not like those of folks I went to school with.

    It's fair to note that just about any kind of firearm you can imagine is available here in UK, by asking the 'right' people, and I mean anything. In a sting operation some years ago, one black gentleman, who turned out to have no less than sixteen passports, was asked to provide a literal ton of sub-machine guns.

    Within a week he had done so.

    Not one had a serial number anywhere on it - all were brand-new and in their unopened green plastic bags.

    Criminals will ALWAYS find ways to get a gun. The innocent legal gun-owner is the one at the bottom of the sh*tepile, as ever.

    tac
     
  12. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Leave for good ? Why ?.....:confused:
     
  13. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    So it's okay to kill with a sword, but not a firearm?

    And "Apart from that, anything goes, providing you can show need to own it - this is dependent on being a fully paid-up member of an authorised club, or a professional shooter like a game warden or game-keeper or land manager."

    "Apart from that.." You say that like it's just some small area. But that was a huge list of things you can't own.

    "Provided you can show a need for it..." Defense? Tyranny? Shooting? Freedom to use my money how I see fit?

    "Dependent on being a fully-paid up member of an Authorized club..." So the club will make sure your guns are not used against the great government of the UK? So they can come and take your firearms whenever they want to? So they can make owning a firearm that much more expensive, putting them just a little more out of reach to most people?
     
  14. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Sir - I'm here as a warning to you all what can and will happen in the USA unless you pay attention to the wake-up call - my posts are a way of showing you how it can happen in any so-called democracy, even in the country where parliaments began.

    As for restrictions that we have here, well, I would point out that there are places in the USA where restrictions like those we have are already in place, where you need an FOID to purchase round lead balls, or where handguns of all kinds are banned, or where anything over .50cal is banned. And the large state between Oregon and the border with your southern neighbour is already well on the way to becoming more like the UK and less like the USA by the day.

    I'd have hoped that my posts would have been informative rather than confrontational, but for some reason there seems to be an element of 'let's piss in the Brit's hat' developing that I'm not that keen on.

    In UK we all do here what we can, within the extreme laws that we have to work with. In the handgun ban I 'lost' many handguns, and had to come home from active duty to hand them in - I was not amused.

    I have many friends in WA and OR - our favourite place on earth is somewhere between Astoria and Brookings, and we spend as much time as we can in Oregon with other close friends in PDX, Eugene and Port Orford, and I'd really enjoy for to have you guys join them.

    If the general intentions on this site are friendly, then I'll carry on posting and, I hope, making worthwhile and interesting contributions to it.

    But I'm not here so you can shoot me down.

    tac
     
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    OK?

    So is there a problem with asking for the whole picture?

    Modern handguns banned, check!

    Semi Auto rifles banned, check!

    Northern Ireland can have handguns, check. And I congratulate them for standing up to the crown in many ways!

    Isle of man .22 handguns, check. Probably because they are not under control of the crown or it would be different

    Ah lets not be brush past those words so fast because those are very, very, controlling conditions! Needing to show a need? were you born a human or a subject? Needing to join a club puts an unfair burden or the lower income citizen!

    Since 1946, self-defense has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun.

    Yes I would be very impressed to have those antique firearms in my collection! :thumbup:

    How long are the barrels on those pistols?

    You say "dim" view, I say you are strictly forbidden to defend yourself with a firearm under punishment of imprisonment. Dim = Prison

    It's a shame that you even need to consider this as your only option to defend yourself in Britain. Do you think the Queen has a Katana at her bedside. :D

    In the US we have a saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight.



    OK I have a question for you. I'm Joe average citizen in London and I want own the best gun possible/permissible to keep in my home.

    1. What gun will be the best possible allowed.

    2. What permits, checks, certifications, permissions and fees including memberships will I be required to comply with to own said handgun?

    3. How long will all this paperwork and bureaucracy take start to finish?
     
  16. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    So it's okay to kill with a sword, but not a firearm?

    Well, no, it's not OK to kill with a sword, but if you are attacked, and that's all you have, wouldn't YOU use it?

    And "Apart from that, anything goes, providing you can show need to own it - this is dependent on being a fully paid-up member of an authorised club, or a professional shooter like a game warden or game-keeper or land manager."

    "Apart from that.." You say that like it's just some small area. But that was a huge list of things you can't own.

    I can't own a modern cartridge-firing handgun? But I can own a Colt M1911 for historical collection reasons if I get the right permit. It's just that I choose not to do so because of the restriction placed on ownership of this kind - the gun has to be kept at one of seven or so location in GB, and shot under supervision - I'm not about to let that happen to me.

    "Provided you can show a need for it..." Defense? Tyranny? Shooting? Freedom to use my money how I see fit?

    The 'good reason' to own a firearm in THIS country is for the purpose of target or sporting shooting. We do not have a history, as the USA does, of
    carrying guns en masse for the purpose of self-defence. Nor do we see the place we live in as a tyranny. The UK is the very best friend that the USA has - the 3500 US servicemen and women who live around me would vouch for that. With a population of around 67 million, most of whom have never thought about shooting as as sport in their whole lives, only one person in about 1600 has ever actually touched real live gun - ever. They do other things with their lives. Let me give you an example to show you. I live in a rural county with just over 540,000 other folks. The last 'armed robbery' that took place in this county was in 2002, and involved a hold-up of a post office by a youth with a replica handgun.


    "Dependent on being a fully-paid up member of an Authorized club..." So the club will make sure your guns are not used against the great government of the UK? So they can come and take your firearms whenever they want to? So they can make owning a firearm that much more expensive, putting them just a little more out of reach to most people?

    Ahem. The club has no responsibility for YOUR guns whatsoever. It is simpy a place you go to shoot. In a country where, as I said, most folks don't have guns, the government does not feel threatened in any way by the gun owner - there aren't that many of us after all. As for the expense, in a country where a gallon of gas costs about $9, do you really imagine that the price of anything puts us off shooting?

    Still, let's move on now, shall we?

    tac
     
  17. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well I sure hope you stay, but if you're thin skinned and don't have a sense of humor, I'm afraid you won't like it here. There's all kinds on this forum and we sure don't all agree, there's some very spirited discussions that go on here. As far as I'm concerned you're one of us, and can offer a very different perspective. Soooooo, don't get your panties in a knot and and take everything so personal...;)
     
  18. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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  19. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I'm not thin-skinned, but you're shooting fish in a barrel by singling me out as the fall guy in this argument - there are plenty of other places on earth where ownership of ANY kind of firearm will introduce you to the use to which they can be put - instant execution.

    As you say, I have a totally different perspective from most of you, having lived most of my life so far on this side of the great water. I'm a shooter who likes older guns - they all have stories too, and they might just talk to you one day if you care to listen. Walking the actual ground where my Boer carbine was captured back in 1901 from a very disgruntled Boer, and sitting on the porch where he stood and gave his details to the PoW registration scribe was pretty interesting. You just don't have stories like this with the latest 'wonder gun' you bought last week.

    tac
     
  20. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but like I said "don't take it so personal" about UK gun law questions. you come off very defensive, and maybe rightly so, but you're inviting a not so polite response...